00:00 - 05:00

Alex:

Really excited about our guest today, a guy I look up to tremendously and somebody who always seems to be able to do way more than I can do better at it. And as a side gig.

I'm, you know, I'm like, Hey, I'm trying to do this full time. Oh, yeah, I just did this thing that you can't even do with your full effort as on a whim. And an incredibly nice guy somebody I became friends with, surprisingly pretty. I don't know what he'd say, I'm pretty close.

But season three of media investors is supposedly tentatively going to be in Sarasota, Florida. And I'm gonna, I don't know if you know, you can't tell if somebody is really inviting you or if you're just like saying something nice. But he is inviting me to crash at his place while I film that week.

David:

That might be part of your lifestyle, though. Like, like, like, there are people that would invite me to crash and I'd be like, Oh, yeah, that's awesome. Thanks, dude. And then I realized like, yeah, but I'm also not like, you know, the, the Alex Felice type of networking that we've joked about before where it's like Stockholm Syndrome.

So no, Jay. Yeah. So this so he'll let you it's just like Lucas, I think Lucas is serious. I'm sure Jay is serious. I don't think he would. I don't think he I think knowing how much stuff he's got going on. He's probably pretty good at not suggesting things that he wouldn't actually do.

Alex:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's been serious. But also, you know, what you said about my networking style? I kind of have an opinion. It's like, look, if you invite me, and you didn't really mean it, and then I show up. I'm very confident at least I am very confident of like, okay, I'll make this worth your time. Okay, that was a mistake, but it turned out really good. Alex is gonna charm your little pants off, you won't be able to help it.

David:

Oh, man.

All right. So if you haven't figured it out, which you probably haven't, because we haven't really actually given any cues. So today's guest is Jay Scott, the Jay Scott, who is behind the BiggerPockets business podcast, the book on flipping houses estimating rehab costs, negotiating real estate and recession proof real estate investing. And I'm going to try to work. We probably I don't know, we didn't actually talk about what we wanted to talk to Jay about it all. But I have this feeling we're going to try to not take this down and what do you think the economy is going to do? topic too much..

Alex:

For everybody who doesn’t know I do a drinking podcast on occasion on YouTube. And the last one, which I do like once every six weeks or something. The last one was me, Jay Scott and Andrew stereos popping over booze for six hours. And it's on YouTube.

So if you want to know what's going on in the economy and what he thinks you can get that it's also like, nobody's ever run for office. But that video out there. That can be very oh...

David:

Yeah.

Alex:

Yeah, I'm not sure about the economy. But I'd like to talk about things that are relevant to our guests. Did you see the cat you asked yesterday in the forums, there's some questions and people gave you some questions that I have to be honest, military, millionaires questions that I thought were not up to standard. I was not that impressed.

David:

I know. I'm looking at them right now.

So we've got one person who said all of them. Alright, well, could you at least give us one verbally? One person said, what techniques? Have you found it effective? That one? Maybe? What perspective on holding costs and timelines during rehab these days? And then what percentage of renovations does he do himself? And I would be willing to go out on a limb and answer that Jay does not do any DIY stuff with his renovations because he runs a podcast on running a business not working in a business. And I'm fairly certain Jay has at some point over the last decade, stopped swinging hammers.

Alex:

Yeah, so I have some I was trying to write some questions out. And that was one of them, which is, you know, how much you actually work? And I kind of wanted to ask it because I, um, I saw that class..

David:

Just like that, like, so how much do you actually work?

Alex:

He's gonna say none, he doesn't work at all, like, delegate, delegate.

Um, so yeah, some of these questions. Kathleen has found effective techniques to design effective reply rates for millions of homeowners. My guess is Jay has dabbled in that but I'm just guessing, but I'd like to ask him something a little more. High concept. I think he gravitates towards that type of thinking more rather than details, not to say that he doesn't understand the details. He literally wrote a book, estimated rehab costs, which is mostly micro. That said, I'm just taking my hand, what I know of him is what your content produces. And it seems to be a lot of high level, high concept ideas, the abstract.

So I think giving our viewers, the best show would be leaning into our guests best strengths. And so some of those questions. I'm just picking on these people.

05:00 - 10:00

David:

I have one question written down. And I plan to kind of play off of that a little bit. And that's more of like, you know, hey, I'm sick of talking about the crash. But since you've been hosting the business podcast, there's been a few guests on the business podcast talking about how buying businesses is actually the next big opportunity.

I'm curious if Jay is going to shift from more houses to more like if he's wanting to buy businesses or, like on that side of things on that scale, what his kind of plan is coming out of all this because I like he's had some guests on there that have been very compelling as far as I'm like, I might buy a business next. Like I don't, I'm not even done building a business, but so I don't know.

Alex:

Yeah, we can talk about that. I wonder. I'm happy to talk about that, because I got a myriad of questions that I would ask me, um, apparently take a selfie some, some. Some, some, some Tinder chick wants to know what I'm up to to make my life amazing today. And I said, nothing. I'm hanging out with these knuckleheads on the internet.

David:

Oh, yeah, you send her a picture of me you never talk to her again.

Intro:

Welcome to the military millionaire podcast where we teach service members, veterans and their families how to build wealth through personal finance, entrepreneurship and real estate investing.

I'm your host, David Pere. And together with my co host, Alex Felice. We're here to be your no BS guys along the most important mission you'll ever embark on your finances.

Roger Vick one Oscar Mike.

David:

What's up military millionaires. We have a super exciting show. If you listen to the intro, you know that we have the one and only Jay Scott, the co host of the BiggerPockets business podcast, the author of a book on flipping houses, estimating rehab costs, negotiating real estate and recession proof real estate investing. And then we have Alex the co host here as well.

Jay:

No love there, Alex. No, love at all.

David:

So I asked Alex, I was like, hey, you're friends with Jay thinking get Jay, too. You think you'd be interested in a podcast and like, literally 24 hours later, we're recording. So I think this is a win all the way around.

So Jay, I'm super excited to have you on the show. And I appreciate you joining us today.

Jay:

Absolutely. This is fun. I was excited to talk to you guys.

David:

Well, I like hearing that you don't have to lie on the show. No I’m just kidding.

If there's if there's I don't think there's anybody that doesn't know who you are. But could you give just a little bit of background, your story and how you became Jay Scott?

Jay:

You would be surprised how many people have no idea who I am. Like I don't I don't care who I am. But sometimes I just want to use the name recognition I have for like to get a little bit better price with a contractor and get him to move a little faster. And they're like, yeah, who are you?

David:

Proof of book on your job.

Jay:

Yeah, exactly.

Um, so let's see, I am an investor. I'm an entrepreneur. I've been doing this for about 12 years, my wife and I started a real estate business back in 2008. We both had come from the corporate world. And when we decided to get married, we decided to kind of leave the 80 hour workweeks behind and figure out something that would allow us to focus on our family, focus on getting married and having kids and raising kids and kind of put life before work.

And so it took a couple years to get there. But we fell into real estate and that was 2008. We've never looked back. we flipped a bunch of houses, we held rentals. We've done notes and lending and multifamily, we just did our first syndication so I get bored easily. So we jump into all different types of things in real estate. And then I do a whole bunch of stuff outside of real estate as well that I don't know if people find that interesting or not. But basically anything investing or business related I enjoy doing.

Alex:

If we could jump right into it, because one of my questions was to you, and you kind of brought it up when you directly brought it up.

There's a tendency, there's two schools of thought actually, there's only one school of thought really, which is find your niche and triple down on it. You know, find out what you're good at, find out what makes money find out what fits your skill set, and like really drill it like really get good at it.

Now, I know you did this with flipping because you said I flipped a couple houses but I believe the number is somewhere like 400.

Jay:

Yep.

10:00 - 15:00

Alex:

So I understand you went really hard on flipping and then. But then you also like to get bored. So I go and dabble in all these other things. Can you speak a little more about, you know, maybe advice to people because they say, don't don't half ass anything hold last one thing, that kind of idea. And then you see a guy like Jay Scott, he'd like dabbles, you got a lot going on more than we've talked about yet. We'll flush some of that out.

Jay:

So, no, I wouldn't say I dabble. That's not true. Sometimes I dabble. But most things. I'm a big fan of the 80-20 rule. And so instead of half ask, or whole, ask something like 80%, ask things, I'm a big fan of working on something long enough that you naturally get a feel for it. And that you get good enough at it that you can then apply it moving forward without getting so bogged down in the details, that you never do anything else.

And that's my personal opinion, because I get bored. Like I said, I said this early, I get bored easily. I don't like to focus on the same thing for 10 or 20 years, there are people that do and if you're the type of person that can niche out and find something that you're amazingly good at.

I on the other hand, like to think, okay, I'm gonna do something long enough that I get good enough that I can kind of add it to my arsenal, I can add it to my quiver. And I can pull that out later, because I've gotten good enough at it. And again, it's the 80-20 rule for me.

Typically, when you learn to do something new, when you're first doing it, you're kind of making it up as you go along. Maybe you're reading about something and you're trying to process it mentally. I don't know if you guys play poker, I have played poker for a long time. And I see this evolution and people that play poker because I've helped a lot of people learn the game. And it's one of those you read your first book. And in your mind, you feel these tables in your head. Okay, I'm playing Texas Hold'em. And I get my first two cards, and I look down at my cards, and I'm like, okay, is this a good hand? Let's think through that table. Yeah. Jack Queen suited? That's a pretty good hand. But I'm in an early position. Is that a good hand in the early position? Okay, well, yeah, it's a good hand in early position, if the players behind me are relatively tight.

And so you're thinking through this, and then you do it for five or six or eight years. And that's like you looked at your cards and like, you know, immediately without even thinking about it, because you've been in that situation. So many times that you don't have to think through the table, you don't have to think through the other players at the table, and you just have a gut reaction. And you've done it enough times that your gut is in line with what at the beginning your brain would have gone through. But it takes a while to get there. And it's like anything we do, I used to play tennis. And if I were to teach somebody to play tennis right now, I could teach them the mechanics, I could teach them to step with their foot, I could teach them to follow through all those things. But the first time they do it, they're not going to hit a ball as well as they're going to hit it five years later, without even thinking about it.

So you have to get to the point where you're good enough that your body and your mind, if it's physical, it's your body, if it's mental, that your mind can kind of take over, and you have a gut feel. And you can do things just based on muscle memory. And again, whether that's, that's, that's intellectual muscle memory, or physical muscle memory, you have to get to the point where you're good enough that your body and your mind are reacting in a way that you don't need to think about the details and the intellectual stuff nearly as much. And so what I tell people is if you're going to learn something, get good enough, that that you feel like okay, I'm always going to be able to use this and then if you want to move on, move on, we flipped houses for about five years before we jumped into rentals, then we did rentals for a couple years and then we did lending for a couple years.

So I don't dabble I don't, I don't like do something and then move on, I do something I get good at it I obsess about I like to read 100 books and talk to 1000 people and feel like I know more than 80 or 90% of the people out there about this topic. And then I'll move on. And so that's the difference between dabbling and and and there's a middle ground between dabbling and focusing on something for the whole rest of your life.

David:

Man that's a really good answer.

And Alex I'm glad you asked that because I literally had written down shiny object syndrome question mark and was gonna ask a similar like what's the balance there so I'm I'm kind of more in the, I’m of probably lean a little farther to the shiny object syndrome where I I just kind of started like, oh, man, you know if I'm gonna write about Airbnb, I should have experienced with an Airbnb let me do that for at least a little while, but I always go back to just buy and hold but I've never key holed myself into like, I buy single family, three bed, one bath, you know, like, not just I buy things and I hold them forever. And there's a lot of different things that fit into that category.

But I love the example like the description that you just gave of muscle memory and you're trusting your gut, like, I think that's really, really cool and powerful. Is there a strategy that you've had the most fun with while you're experimenting? Like I know, you said, you get bored? Do you find that you like to go hunting for new strategies? Or do you just kind of like, Oh, this popped up? This sounds interesting, let's uh...

15:00 - 20:00

Jay:

Yeah, and this is one of those things that unfortunately, is, in my opinion, is hard to learn. You have to have a natural curiosity. You have to be able, you come across something new. And hopefully you look at that and say, Wow, I have no idea what the hell that's about. I want to learn more. And I found that people that have that natural curiosity, or tend, especially in the business in the investing world, are going to tend to do a whole lot better than those people who are just like, okay, that's, that's nice, and then get back to whatever they were doing.

Here's a good example. 2014 ish, 15 ish. I remember somebody mentioning Bitcoin to me. And it actually wasn't Bitcoin. It was a theorem, which is another type of cryptocurrency. And I remember being Hmm, interesting. So I went online, and I started doing a little bit of research and I'm just like, Hmm, this blockchain thing sounds interesting in this cryptocurrency thing sounds interesting. I must have spent six months literally trying to learn everything there was to know about blockchain and Bitcoin and cryptocurrency back in 2015. It resulted in me saying, hey, let's buy some aetherium, which again, was another cryptocurrency and I held it for a couple years, I made a whole lot of money. Because I was curious, because there's this natural like, Ha, this is something new. I don't know if it's gonna be something or not be something. But I want to learn more about it.

And every time not every time, but a lot of times when I see something like that, I think, Hmm, that's really interesting. I want to learn more about it.

So 2017 my kids best friends in school, we met their parents. And the dad is an energy trader and we were just talking about stuff. And he was really excited about hearing about the investing we do with real estate. And he mentioned, Do you do any real estate investing? He said, No, no, but I invest in horses. Like I I own race horses. Like, that's awesome. Okay, now I have to learn more about race horses. And so I spent like the next two years learning everything I could about race horses and buying race horses, and he and I partnered together. And basically, now I've added race horses to my repertoire. I added Bitcoin and crypto to my repertoire. I got excited when I started hearing about people buying businesses a year or two ago. And suddenly, huh, this is interesting. I want to learn about buying businesses. I started a podcast on business and, and buying businesses and I started buying businesses and investing in businesses. I've been investing in businesses for 10 years, because that's just something that the whole angel investing thing always excited me. So I'm like, hey, let's give this a try.

And so I will find things I will have a natural curiosity, I will obsess about them for months or years, till I get to again the 80-20 point where I feel like I know enough about this, that I can add it to my added to my quiver, and I can pull it out the next time I see an opportunity. And so it is but it really starts with a natural curiosity. And for people that don't have that natural curiosity, in my opinion, they're disadvantaged because they're, they have to get good at one thing or two things because they're not going to get excited about adding a lot of different a lot of different things to the repertoire.

Alex:

It also makes it harder for people to pivot when you know opportunities change and new things.

Jay:

Absolutely.

Alex:

And you have to be like Hey, what's what's going on in the what's going on over there in the future? Like bitcoins a perfect example actually because oh and by the way resources poker Bitcoin businesses use me if I use the word dabble.

Jay:

But listen, listen, I have not and this is the difference I think between where a lot of people are and where I like to think I am, is none of those things have I done for a month or two and given up. And I haven't been successful in all of them. Let me tell you something, I failed a lot. But that's that's half the challenge. It's like, okay, I failed. Let me figure out what went wrong and let me get good at it. And that's different than not the shiny object and don't get me wrong shiny object syndrome is the first piece of that natural curiosity. That's a good thing. You just have to force yourself to go a little bit further.

Alex:

Yeah, shiny object syndrome is um, it really is like a double edged sword. I know my good friend, my other friend. You know, Matt Fairclugh has a shiny object syndrome. Like he's maybe the worst I've ever seen in my life. And you don't maybe notice cuz when you see him, you're like, dude, he takes that multifamily very regularly, he seems, but and he's very committed and I'm not taking anything away from a guy anyway.

But when you talk to him, he's just got like these, you know, big, big ideas that are all over the place. I'm like, dude, I don't know how you get anything done. Your mind is just that his mind is going. But I mean, when he commits, he commits hard.

20:00 - 25:00

Jay:

But here's the other thing about natural curiosity, it gives you the opportunity to get in early. People look at me, and they, so I had some success playing poker. I took second in a World Series of Poker event and back in 2005, got my hour on ESPN was one hand away from winning a World Series bracelet. And people are all that's really cool. But what they don't realize is, I had been playing poker since 1990. I've been playing poker for 15 years really seriously before I got there. And so I had the advantage of I started before poker was popular. And so by the time like it took off, I was well positioned. Same way, same way with Bitcoin and cryptocurrency 2018 everybody's talking about this Bitcoin thing and this blockchain thing, and I've been doing it for three years. And I didn't know if it was gonna go anywhere. I got lucky. I'm not gonna pretend like I knew that Bitcoin was going to be huge. I had no idea.

But I was curious about it. So I started looking into it before anybody else did. And same thing with real estate. I mean, a lot of people were investing in 2008. But I started flipping houses and writing books and starting a blog back when nobody else was like, really focused on the education piece of real estate, because this is really interesting. I want to do this. And so everybody looks at me and says, how did you figure out poker 20 years early? How did you figure out blockchain five years early? How did you figure out like flipping houses and writing books, 10 years early, and all of these things? And if I didn't figure it out, I just was curious. And I kind of fell into it. And that natural curiosity just led me to situations that were highly advantageous.

Alex:

Yeah, but you gotta put yourself in the position to try those new things.

Jay:

Absolutely.

Alex:

Because my guess is right. If I can give a counterexample, right, there's probably stuff you've done that has gone nowhere that you got excited about. I mean, the racehorse thing, I mean, I just can't imagine that it's gonna become the biggest, the biggest business, the most exciting business in the world in five years. I just can't ...

Jay:

And it's not gonna it's not gonna be highly lucrative either. Do I need resources? Yeah. Do I make a lot of money? Absolutely not.

But it's fun. And let me tell you something, the whole racehorse thing, it's fun, I get to like go to the races like, I've had horses run like, last year, we had, like, literally, the best two year old horse in the country won a huge race. That was really exciting. But here's the other thing.

Horse racing has taught me more about portfolio management than any other type of investing I've ever done. Because horse racing is one of those things that you can buy a lot of assets quickly. There's a lot of different exit strategies, there's a lot of different ways to make money with them. And so if you're not going to understand if you don't understand portfolio management, you're going to lose a whole lot of money with resources. So it forced me to learn that so even though racehorse is probably never going to be a big thing. I'm probably going to be better at portfolio management than most people out there who invest simply because I got into that because I was excited about it.

Alex:

Yeah.

David:

And you have to wear big hats.

Jay:

I do have a picture of my wife in a very big hat.

David:

There you go. Do you have a jockey outfit? No, I’m just kidding.

Jay:

That’s too big.

That's all I've been thinking this entire time.

That's actually a really, really good point. Like the fact that even though because when you talk about these things, people are like, Oh, yeah, well, that's all Jays all over the place. But the reality is, that you're much more it shows because the thing that people like about Jay Scott is that you're well rounded, you've done a lot of different things. And I mean, it's kind of like that'll, like, you know, if you put a bunch of if you do a different, like, you know, you do 10 different things like what is it with angel investors, right? You might invest in like 10 different businesses and like one takes off, and that one will carry the nine that didn't, as long as you know, generally speaking.

Jay:

Yeah.

David:

So I think that's like, kind of the mentality here is like, yeah, they might not all work out. But the one that does, or the piece that I get out of that will ultimately outweigh the things that don't work out as long as you keep going.

Jay:

Yep.

And everything has little hidden things. Like I mentioned, portfolio management with horses.

So investing in embracing horses, has taught me about portfolio management, playing poker for 20 years taught me about game theory.

Investing in businesses. So investing in businesses really taught me about analyzing people and learning about people because I'm a big believer in, a lot of angel investors are a big believer in that it's not the idea. It's not the product, it's the team. The team is what makes her break. I'd much rather invest in a company with a mediocre product, and a great team than a mediocre team and a great product. And so you learn to analyze people.

25:00 - 30:00

Jay:

And so everything I do everything that I've I've oh and blockchain let's talk about blockchain and crypto. People always wonder where all my economics knowledge comes from and a lot of what I've learned about economics and how the economy works was kind of jump started by my digging into crypto five or six years ago.

I mean, I've always been interested in economics. But once you start learning about blockchain and cryptocurrencies, it makes you think about money. And it makes you think about distributed systems that makes you think about the economy completely differently.

So each of these things that I kind of pursue and I learn, I'm not just learning about cryptocurrency, I'm not just learning about poker, I'm learning other things that I can take from investing activity to investing activity to investing activity, and I can apply them there.

Alex:

I love that. It's interesting. You say that, though, cuz I didn't think you. I don't really think that you know that much about economics.

Jay:

I don't, I don't, but here's the thing. It's the 80-20 rule. I know more than most people. So I look like a genius. But let me tell you, I know. nothing compared to the people that really, really study it. And so people think, oh, that guy knows a lot about economics. He knows a lot about poker. He knows a lot about blockchain. He knows a lot about angel investing, and there's a lot about businesses. I know 80% as much as the people that really know, but I know 80% more than most people.

David:

I thought I had economics until Alex told me to read about the big debt crisis. And then I was like, oh, wow, Ray Dalio makes me look like an idiot.

Jay:

Ray Dalio is awesome.

Alex:

There's an old saying, old quote, you read three books on any subject, you know, more than 99% of people about it?

Jay:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

David:

That actually leads into what I was about to ask you is, how are you learning it? So like, when I hear horses, right, like, I don't think oh, man, like, there's the book on racing horses. But I'm sure there's resources. But like, when you find one of these topics is your go to to try to find a book to try to find a podcast to try to find an expert. Like, obviously, there's a crapload of books behind you. So I might be ruining my own question here.

Jay:

yes, so if I went over to my bookshelf right now, they're only like three or four real books on horse racing and understanding horse racing. But yeah, I've read them all. And then I start talking to people. And I'm not scared to go and be stupid and ask dumb questions and say, okay, I want to understand this, and and then start applying my other knowledge like, the my partner in race, horsing. He's been, he's on race horses for a decade. And when we started talking, what we realized was my knowledge of business and real estate investing and investing in general, there were a lot of things he didn't understand. And he didn't know how to apply those things to horse racing. And then he knew the horse racing stuff. And I've now been able to take that stuff. And so between us, it's a great partnership, because I can help him apply the more general investing principles and the more general game theory principles, to our race horses.

And, and so people think they have to go it alone, go find somebody that's an expert in this area, figure out what you have to offer them and say, hey, let's work together, you teach me this, I'm going to bring to the table what I know in other things, and, and you really you have to obsess. And I mean, yeah, books are great. But at some point, you have to start doing it.

I mean, I remember I was reading in 2015, about blockchain and Bitcoin and etherium. But it wasn't until I actually like took some money and put it out there and invested. And I started following it and started talking to other people.

I mean, this is gonna sound dumb, but one of the best resources that I have is Reddit. So I don't know if you guys have ever used Reddit, let me tell you something, you can get sucked into Reddit. It can be a crapload of wasted time. But there are some really niche groups on Reddit that some really smart people talk about stuff that's pretty deep. And so I have a lot of economics discussions on Reddit, I have a lot of block chain discussions on Reddit and other other social media sites. I'm part of certain blockchain groups on Facebook, and I'm part of other groups that have some good discussions about economics on Facebook. And I spend or I used to spend a lot of time on like the equivalent of bigger pockets, but in the poker world, a site called two plus two.

And and so basically, you have to immerse yourself, and you're not going to get there by reading a book or two or 50. You actually have to do it and you have to network with other people that are doing it and you have to take some chances and you have to learn it. And it's one of the advantages to getting started in this business when you're young. And it's one of the reasons why I tell people to do this when you're young, I wish I would have started 20 years earlier, because then you can afford to make mistakes.

30:00 - 35:00

Jay:

People always say, If I could go back 30 years and do it all over again, what would I do differently? I would do the same thing I'm doing but I did it a lot earlier. Because you can afford to make mistakes when you're young, I'm a big proponent of the best way to invest is just buy shit. Buy everything. So I'm not talking about cars and depreciating stuff, but by different types of investments. So buy cash flowing real estate, buy gold, buy blockchain and Bitcoin, that's why I bought it five years ago, I didn't know where it was going. I was gonna do what I was like, yeah, let's give it a shot.

I remember buying Beanie Babies back in the 90s. Because I'm like, oh, who knows, maybe these are gonna lead. Everybody's buying Beanie Babies, and they seem to be going up in value. And don't get me wrong, I bought a lot of crap that ended up being absolutely worthless.

But that's the nice thing about starting young is that you can just take those chances, and sometimes they're gonna pan out and sometimes they're not. And I made a lot of money on Bitcoin because I got lucky. I didn't know anything anybody else didn't know. I just kind of fell into it sooner than a lot of people. And it got me interested. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna buy shit. I'm gonna buy some of that. And let's see what happens.

Alex:

So, every time that I've met you, or talk to you, which has been a while now, okay.

Jay:

There you go. Pokemon cards.

David:

I used to have a Beanie Baby on this desk. And I couldn't find it, I got the next best thing.

Alex:

So every time we speak, you find a way to tell everybody that you're an introvert. Every time I met you in public, and I think every time we've been on a show together, you mentioned this, and then you say things like, hey, look, if you want to get good at something, go network, go talk to people go learn from people.

And I want to kind of combine those because I think there's a lot of people out there that identify as introverts and then they say, well, I'm not good at networking, because and I think those are not, I think you'd agree those aren't really the same thing. But also I kind of wanted to talk about what they asked about, people are really nice and willing to help and often they like to invest in you, especially if they think you're going to be a good investment.

Jay:

Yep.

Alex:

So can you talk about introverts and networking?

Jay:

Yeah, so I am not a good networker. I am not good at small talk. I'm not good at conversations with people, I don't know. But I forced myself to do things that are outside of my comfort zone. I forced myself to not stand in the corner of parties, I have to force myself to go to parties, even amongst people that I know. And so yeah, it's all part of you have to look at your weaknesses and figure out how to overcome them or compensate for them. And for me, being an introvert, in some ways is good. I mean, it's nice because I don't get sidetracked on social stuff that a lot of people don't get me wrong, I went to college, and I partied too much. And I had all these friends. But I didn't spend my 20s and 30s like going out every night and partying and wasting a ton of time. Yeah, I know, you seem like the type.

So it was more fun for me to kind of stay at home and surf the web and learn about whatever it was that I was interested in. But yeah, you have to get out there as well. And yeah, I am tremendously introverted, I can have this discussion with you guys. Because I know you guys, I can have discussions with my friends and I can go to parties with my friends and it's great. But people I don't know. It's extremely uncomfortable. I'll be standing there talking to somebody I don't know. And in my head, it's like, okay, what's, what should I be asking? What's the next thing? Where's this conversation going? is this? Do we have too much dead airspace here in this conversation? Okay, I'm done talking to this person. How do I get out of this? Do I say I have to go to the bathroom?

And literally, this is what's going on in my head. And they're talking to me and I haven't heard a word. They're saying because in my head, I'm trying to figure out what's the next step? So in my head, this is like, I'm mapping out the roadmap of the conversation as opposed to even listening to the conversation. And this is probably part of the reason my wife was always like, even listening to me and I'm just like, No, I'm just trying to figure out where we're going with this.

Alex:

I guess we should have Carol here. She's probably the best.

Jay:

She is by far the better guest.

David:

Oh, man.

Jay:

Wow, did I say everything? Are you guys out of questions?

David:

I just hadn't ever heard an introvert describe it like that. That's interesting.

I had never even thought about that like that somebody would just be like completely involved in conversation. And not know that like, like they were thinking, you know, almost like chess, you're thinking two steps ahead, but you just forget the piece that's like right in front of you.

35:00 - 40:00

Jay:

Well, this is why I like the side of the camera or the side of the microphone so much better than actually hosting the podcast.

Hosting the podcast is so hard because I'm just sitting there thinking, okay, what am I supposed to ask now? Where's this naturally going? And it's really difficult. This is much easier because you guys just asked me questions. And, and I don't have to figure out where we're going. And it's, it's, I enjoy this. But here's the other part about being an introvert.

When this is done, I'm going to go lie down on the couch and be like, Oh, my God, I am absolutely I'm having fun right now, this is great. But when this is done, I'm going to be drained. And I have a podcast that I'm hosting at one o'clock. And so I get ready for that. And I have another podcast and 1 to 3. And then I'm speaking tonight at an event and it is draining. And my wife if she were doing that, she'd be like, okay, let's add a few more in there. Because that's energizing for her.

For me, like this is gonna be a long, hard day.

Alex:

That's fascinating.

David:

Yeah I definitely enjoy it.

Alex:

Um, so that's why David brought me on the show in some ways, because he's a high extrovert. But you said about hosting versus being a guest. So he said, yeah, he's working. And so for him to do what you just said. Now, luckily, you know, you don't actually have I don't know how much work you have to do with the BP podcast. But I assume Kevin does the bulk of it.

Jay:

We do a lot of it.

Alex:

Yeah.

Jay:

He's focused on his superstars.

Alex:

Yeah.

Jay:

He spends his time with Brandon and David and Mindy and Scott. And, yeah, we're kind of cast aside.

Alex:

I did my own podcast for a very, very short stint to kind of fill out like you said, see what it was like, see how, what it takes to get decent at it. And that's why this is such a good fit. Cuz he's sitting there right now working. He's thinking about production.

Jay:

Yep.

Alex:

And he'd be like, he called me. He's like, hey, look, you know, I'm having a conversation with people. But it's actually hard to have a conversation because I'm working. So can you come and fill some of the dead air and have and talk? So I come in and I'm, I'm doing basically what you're doing. I'm like, I have no work here. I'm just hanging out my buddy Jay. I don't have to. Very, very pleasant for me.

David:

It's a win win. So when I'm, you know, when Alex asks the question about shiny object syndrome, I'm still writing out the word syndrome. So there would have been, you know, five seconds of me writing out my question, so I can write down my answer when it's done. Before I ask the question, and yeah, it's a...

Alex:

I have a question for you, something I have not asked you ever.

BiggerPockets business podcast, you've now been doing it for a year?

Jay:

Year and a half.

Alex:

Year and a half!
You've met? I don't listen to podcasts. hardly at all anymore. I listen to books. But I see I listened to some of the bits. And I know you've had some tremendous guests.

Jay:

We have been very fortunate to get to leverage the bigger pockets name to have some really good guests. Yes.

Alex:

So has it already? Or do you see it changing your trajectory and what you do? Because..

Jay:

Well, here's the funny thing.

So yeah, we've had some big name guests. We had Barbara Corcoran on we had Jay Papasan, the author of The one thing Mike Mccalla Wits who if you're a business entrepreneur, entrepreneur, if you own businesses, he's like the business author expert. We've had a lot of really good business names on there.

But I actually enjoy talking to the small entrepreneurs. One of the reasons that shows are really hard is when you do a real estate show. Most of your guests I imagine are on let's say this show, most of your guests have done podcasts before. And don't I want to belittle real estate podcasts. But we all know there's a circuit. And there are people that kind of go on lots of podcasts. And the reason is because we'd like to hear from them. It's not a bad thing. But the nice thing is I've done so many podcasts that you know, when you have me on. I have the stories that I can tell. And I know how a podcast works. And I run a podcast. So I know what you guys are looking for. And I know how to keep this interesting for the audience, I hope. But I remember the first time I did a podcast or the first 50 times I did podcasts. And it was just like, I feel bad for the people that were interviewing me, because they'd be like, so tell us how you got started. I bought a house in 2008. And we flipped it. Okay, great. Great. Great. And so what did you learn from that? Yeah, I learned that I liked flipping houses. It was really kind of cool. I mean, that's that's what when we when we're first doing podcasts, we think they're we think that they're we're on there because people want to actually hear us answer questions about ourselves.

40:00 - 45:00

Jay:

Nobody's listening to this to hear my story, nobody's listening to this to hear like me do a QA. They want to learn something. And the problem is when you're first doing a podcast, people don't realize that they think, oh, I'm just being interviewed, and I'm just supposed to answer questions. And so we get a lot of people on our podcast, I'm going around here, we get a lot of people on our podcast, who it's the first time they've ever done a podcast, we're finding small entrepreneurs that like nobody's ever heard of them. Nobody's reached out to them. I'm digging into two things here and there and finding these obscure businesses that I think are really cool. But people that have never done a podcast, so I get them on the show. And I'm asking questions. So tell me about your backstory. I grew up in Cleveland, and I went to college, and then I started a business. Okay, cool. And what advice do you have for our listeners out there? Yeah, um, yeah, start a business. And so, and so it's difficult. And so it forces me to really kind of dig in and understand their business, not obviously not as well as they do, but well enough that I can ask insightful questions. And so that's forced me with these small business owners to really try and dig in and understand what they're doing. And then I get to see kind of the inner workings of their business and the inner workings of their life, because I'll be on the phone with him for a half hour before the conversation to say, okay, we need to figure out where the interesting topics are here. And where the interesting gold nuggets are here, that during the conversation, I can kind of tease out of you. And so having those conversations before the actual interview, is kind of, that's where I get to learn, I get to ask all these questions from these entrepreneurs, about their businesses that nobody else gets to ask. And I get them to basically give me one on one coaching.

I mean, I can talk to somebody who's running a food manufacturing business, selling food to Costco. We had a company on literally their $12 million company, like they got big by selling food to Costco. And so I get a half hour before the show to sit there and say, Okay, tell me about this process. How do you sell food to Costco? How do you buy the ingredients? How do you manufacture it? And so like, I have my own private one on one coaching session with all these people. It's awesome.

And so yeah, we get Barbara Corcoran and Jay Pappasan and basically, they don't have time to talk to us before the show, they come on, they regurgitate the same stories that they tell on the 50 other podcasts that they did that week. They have their message that everybody I mean, it's just completely honed, they're never going to say anything wrong. They're never going to say anything too terribly interesting. They haven't said before. But then I have these little guests, where literally, I'm getting one-on-one coaching from them because I get to ask them questions that they haven't explained to anybody else before. So that's a really long, long way of saying that I enjoy that podcast, because to me, that's my own personal mentorship.

Sponsor:

What's up guys, today's sponsorship for this episode is going to be me talking about the hard money lender that I recommend the most.

First and foremost, Tony is a service member and a house flipper, which is just totally rad. And secondly, and probably the most important, they have some incredible options out there. They're a national lender, and they'll their minimum loan amount is only 75,000, which is less than a lot of hard money companies out there, they will loan up to 75% of the after repair value depending on your credit, meaning that they will have, you only need to put down 10 or 20% of the purchase price. And they will finance the other 80 to 90%. And then they will finance 100% of the renovation costs. And it's interest only for the first year, their rates go as low as 7.99% interest. And they even offer long term financing and cash out options.

So they're really good. They're very quick, they have good customer service. And they'll quickly tell you yes or no. This works for you, this works for us. Or they'll point you in the right direction. And the easiest way to get ahold of them is to go to Frommilitarytomillionaire.com/hardmoneylender, or if you just go to the resources page, but I'll put a link down below and just fill out that short form.

I will personally introduce you to Tony so that you can get in touch and talk to them about financing options. This is a really high quality dude. And he's a member of our mastermind and they're just good people and their hard money products are solid and happy to help connect you guys. And I hope you know, I'd love to hear your success stories.

David:

Man you just hit like I have been saying that for I mean, I got so I got asked on a podcast last week. If or after recording, right they turned off recording and the question was essentially like, at what point was podcasts worth your time like the guy was getting at like, you know, how much money have you made podcasting? And I was like dude, podcasting has never been worth my time except for that I get an hour or two of unsolicited one on one. I get to ask whatever question I want with people who would generally not give me their time and that has been the piece for me that is just absolutely true. And I've done business with people, I've done partnerships with people, I've created things with people all through the podcast that I never would have known. Like, there's no tangible like, Oh, yeah, I've made this much money. It's all completely intangible, but it's the ROI is, you know, infinite.

45:00 - 50:00

David:

And so I think that's really you just summarize that so well, is that like, being able to ask people the questions you want and learn from them in a way that, you know, because you're because you're a podcast, like, you know, if you're a nobody, and I say this, like nobody, but you know, if you're a nobody, and you call somebody who's got a business, and you're like, Hey, can I have an hour to pick your brain? You're not gonna get it. But if you're like, Hey, can I have an hour to have you as a guest on my podcast and show you off as a superstar and get you some, you know, some engagement and whatnot. And like this mutual, it's a mutually beneficial value approach that allows you into their life, and it's huge.

Jay:

Did you realize we just hit on like, the greatest life hack there is you asked me earlier. How do you learn about a new topic that you don't know anything about, buy books, or whatever?

Well, I think we just hit on the best way to do it, you start a podcast, and then you start calling people who, like have never been on a podcast before because they're like, who am I? And you just say, I'd love to have you on my podcast. And you might ask you questions. And then you get an hour or two, like you said, to just pick their brain and get them to mentor you.

And so maybe you have to publish the podcast just so people don't catch on. But how is that that's an amazing life hack right there, you'll want to learn something, you start a podcast, and people will mentor you for free.

David:

Imma go around now.

Alex:

It also goes to show the testament for the value of social capital now and going forward, which I think all three, everybody in this chat has learned quite a while ago, and has made a pretty substantial effort to capitalize on.

So your ability to raise followers, your ability to raise a voice in the community, and then disseminate that, that voice is highly, highly, highly lucrative, and people know it. And so you can if you have that talent, you can use it to extract and I use that term like, you know, like David said, mutually beneficial. But you can use that to extract this other talent that somebody else had said, hey, let's trade. You don't have a voice. I have a big voice. But you have something I want to know. Good trade.

Jay:

Yep, absolutely.

David:

That's huge.

Jay:

I'm sitting here thinking about what podcast I should start what I want to learn about.

I'm so excited now.

Alex:

He just got done saying he's like, I gotta take a nap. Because it's so draining now. Let's do it all the time.

Jay:

Oh, yeah. Cuz I have a new idea. New ideas are energizing for me.

Alex:

You and I do a show every couple months.

Jay:

Yep.

ALex:

On Friday night with a bottle of whiskey.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You don't want it all the time.

David:

He has class, Alex.

Alex:

But well I don’t.

Jay:

Literally the first time we did this, it ended up being a six hour show. We started at like seven o'clock on a Friday night. I think we finished it like 12 or 1am. And literally, I had a bottle of wine. It was a good bottle. It was like a $50 bottle of wine that I'm saying they're chugging while we're talking. And I hope nobody goes to look that up. Because I think I said things towards the end of that I probably shouldn't have been saying.

David:

So what I'm gathering here is that the three of us need to just create an official drinking networking podcast where we find small business owners and get them tanked.

Jay:

Or doesn't even have to be a small business, just whatever. Yeah, let's do this. This would be fun.

Alex:

I've had this idea for a while, um, obviously, because I've been doing it on and off here and there kind of casually, because it's one of those things where I don't want to drink every weekend.

And it's one of those things where the higher the more you do that the higher probability you're gonna say something like, I don't want to publish this. And I also don't want to do any editing. But I think there is definitely some opportunity there. We'll have to talk off screen and put them together.

Jay:

You know, the TV show drunk history. We can do drunk, drunken drunk. It's a bunch of people that like to get together, they drink and they just talk about history.

Alex:

You want to do drunk econ?

Jay:

Yeah, we can do business drunk investing.

Alex:

Drunk investing?

Jay:

Yep.

David:

I will absolutely say things that I should not have published, but I don't plan on running for office. So it's all good.

Alex:

I don't think that matters anymore.

David:

That's true.

Yes, it’s right here in youtube.

Yeah, I didn't mean that.

Alex:

So I wanted to ask this because some of our members of our group on Facebook asked these questions and I had to ask you, how in the mix are you with your flipping business now? Like how many boots on the ground are you? And then how much are you just delegating, because you said you're going through the motions. But you know, so well.

50:00 - 55:00

Jay:

I got really good at extracting myself from most of my real estate business because we were doing stuff in other states and we had partners. And then we moved down to Florida last year, and we started flipping and buying rentals in the area where I live. And it was a horrible, horrible decision. Because we do have a partner, I do have a partner down here who handles a lot of it. But he's an hour south of me. So when we buy stuff closer to me, I find myself taking on a whole lot more work than then then I have been doing for the last couple years.

So yeah, we're probably more involved in our real estate business now than we have been in a few years. But these days, we're still doing, we're probably doing 20, we'll do 20 flips this year, we'll buy 20 single family rentals. We just bought our first apartment complex, which was kind of cool. That was something brand new for me. And so I have an amazing partner named Ashley Wilson, who has been investing for a long time, and she kind of is dragging me along through this first apartment complex that we bought in Houston.

So learning that and we still do like we were talking about before. I've got a lot of a lot of arrows in my quiver. And so we've done a couple angel investments over the last few months, we bought some race horses, we buy notes, we originate notes, just all kinds of different stuff. It's like when an opportunity arises, it's like, okay, I can now recognize that and I can do it. So when people say what are you doing these days? It's kind of like I can tell you what I've done over the last couple months. But what I'm going to do over the next couple months, it really depends on what opportunities come along.

But I am excited about multifamily and the syndication. So we'll definitely be doing a bunch of that over the next couple years.

Alex:

So I did my first 24 units last year.

Jay:

Yep. Awesome.

Alex:

And actually last night at 10:30, I got the PSA, I wanted a contract for 52 units.

Jay:

Congrats.

Alex:

Here in Fayetteville.

Jay:

Nice!

Alex:

Right up the street from me, my property manager is going to take it no problem. It's gonna be a very good property for us. And I think we're about to get the agency debt, which is a big, big, that's a game changer, bro.

Jay:

That's awesome.

And, you know, I'll say it to anybody that wants to get really good at real estate, buy a 52 unit, buy a 30 to 70 unit property. Because you know this, and I don't mean to scare you or anything, but those are the most difficult properties. Because they're too big to have the single family property managers manage them for you. But they're too small to have full time property management on site. And so management is difficult. But let me tell you something, there's tremendous opportunity, because the big boys don't want to touch those because they can't make them completely passive or not easily. The little players who like the duplexes and the quads, they don't want to touch them. So there's a good niche there. And if you can figure out how to manage them, well, tons of money to be made.

So that's awesome.

Alex:

Yeah, I think all those things, you know, I've been kinda like you, I have people see me now. And they're like, oh, Alex, you bought a house only a few years ago, four years ago at first, and then they see me now and you know, 52, and they see the trajectory. And I'm like, yeah, but you know what, in that time, I went to finance school, and I started learning six years to buy real estate before actually buying anything.

So I think the trajectory is a long time coming. There is some management, there, obviously, is still a learning curve. But after that first one, I feel very confident I got good partners, thankfully, and I'm sure you throw your business. I'm sure you've known that you know, good partners make all the difference.

Jay:

Absolutely good partners are the best thing in the world, bad partners are the worst.

David:

Especially if you find that partner who pulls you forward into bigger goals. It's like a double edged sword because it's just like, you know, I joke with people that the way that I get better at things like my personality is to like, pull, like force myself to get sucked into things. And the way I do that is like, I've always been the jerk who will be like, let's run a half marathon this weekend. And then like hoping that someone doesn't agree. And then when they do, I'm like, crap, I'm running the half. Now I have to do this.

But if you can find that person who will pull you into those things, like it's amazing how fast you'll grow, you'll grow as long as they're, they're a good person. And obviously, you're doing it yourself too. But you know, I don't I don't, Alex. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if you woke up one day and you were like, I'm buying a 52 unit. But I'd imagine there was definitely somebody there too. Who was like, come on. You can do this. Like you got this mean like Jeremy right. Like you got you got someone in there who's able to who's got some experience and able to help you out with stuff. And anyway, I'm rambling but it's just...

55:00 - 1:00:00

Alex:

Your network. You have to set yourself up with people that, you know, you have to put men in, you have to manually put people in your life that then holds you accountable.

Now, and whether that means they have to go out and say, text you and say, Hey, Alex, are you working today? Or people that when you talk to them, you don't want to feel like, Oh, I haven't been doing anything.

And so when I call, I mean, I'll have this list too with Jay. But I do have with a lot of the people, you know, we're in a mastermind, this, that. And so when I get to that group, it's like, well, I better have something to say that I accomplished. And so that that forces me to then work. So I'm like, look, I don't want to be the low man on the totem pole, I want to show that I'm earning my keep here. And so yeah, you have to manually put people in your life that you hold yourself accountable to them. I guess that's how I do.

David:

Yeah.

Jay:

Yeah, partners are difficult. And I mean, I'm very cautious these days about engaging new partnerships, because I realized that it can be difficult to be a partner with one, I'm a control freak, too, I'm kind of like, like we've discussed, I get interested in different things. So I can be in the middle of a partnership and be like, oh, shiny object, although I'll probably get obsessed about it for two years. And, and so I can't leave partners high and dry like that.

So typically, these days when I have partnerships, I try to be really transparent about what these relationships are gonna look like. Let's talk about all the things that can go wrong, here's my personality. So let me tell you the things that could go wrong from my perspective, I move every five years. So in a couple years, I just made my wife say we're moving to a different state. So we need to talk about that now. And I may get an opportunity to buy a 400 unit apartment complex, which means I may be traveling for three months. So let's talk about that.

Whatever it is, you have to talk about, like those risks based on personality based on your lifestyle based on everything, and make sure that you have a contingency plan. So that if one of those things plays out, if my wife says, Hey, we're moving to Hawaii, okay, well, we've already talked about that, we know how we're going to handle that. And if you can't find a solution for things like that, then don't enter into that partnership, because then you've now locked yourself into not living your life. And again, these things changed when I was younger, yeah, I was happy saying, yeah, I can devote 40 hours a week to this partnership. But these days, I won't do that, I can't do that. And so you have to have those discussions with a partner.

The other thing you have to realize is in any partnership, half the time you're going to be the boss, half the time you're going to be the employee. In any partnership, there are going to be things in the company or things in the partnership, where you need to lead and you need to drive and you need to make the decision. Because no matter as much as we like to think partnerships are democratic, and everybody gets a vote, those partnerships don't work.

You need to partner with people that have a different set of skills than you do. And the things that you're good at, you need to drive and you need to lead and you need to make the decisions, the thing that your partner is good at, they need to lead and they need to drive and they need to make the decisions. And when you're leading and driving and making the decisions, you're in charge, and your partner needs to be able to basically be an employee and need to be able to work for you. And if they don't have the mentality, they don't have the ability to put themselves in a subservient position to you and to be led, then they're not a good partner. Likewise, if that's something that they're controlling, they're leading, they're driving, they're in charge, and now you're basically working for them. And if you don't have the psychological makeup where you can be subservient to somebody and you can be essentially an employee to your partner, then you're not prepared for that partnership, either.

And so what I like to tell people is, or I ask people if they're looking into partnership? Is this somebody you could both work for? And, and, and manage? And could they work for you and manage you? And if the answer is no, because personalities don't work out that way or whatever? That's not a good partnership.

Alex:

I really, I've never heard it explained that way. I really like that.

I think the biggest thing that I've seen in partnerships, and I don't have the experience you do, obviously, but I think in terms of our viewers, our listeners who maybe are looking at their first one to five deals, and they want to partner with somebody who has also not that many deals, what I find is most common is to people who don't really know how to do this partner up hoping the other person is going to do the bulk of the work.

Jay:

Yep.

Alex:

And then you get to people who are not doing the bulk of the work and just you get frustrated or the one that I don't know if you have any opinion on this, but I always tell people don't partner on a small deal. Like don't go in on a single family home together, especially with a mortgage because I'm like you're tied together for however long...

1:00:00 - 1:05:00

Jay:

Don't partner with a rental.

Partner on a flip, because in six months, yeah, in six months, you're done and hopefully, you partner on a rental you can be tied to that person for the next 10 years.

Alex:

To make 100 bucks a month, maybe.

Jay:

Exactly, exactly.

Alex:

But you can be miserable. The thing about oh, we were making five grand a month or making 100 bucks a month. I still hate you with the same mouth.

Jay:

Exactly.

David:

Yeah, yeah, definitely got to think long term when you think of a partner.

Oh, man. All right, Jay, I got a few questions that I always ask every guest.

Jay:

Yep.

David:

The first one being, if an 18 to 20 year olds walk up to you asking for life advice. What do you think would be like? What's the one thing that you wish someone had told you when you were 18?

Jay:

Yeah, I'm gonna go back to something I said earlier, because I think it's really important.

Start buying shit. Excuse my language? Am I allowed to say that on the show I already had? I guess it's too late now.

But yeah, just buy stuff. Just buy stuff, buy rentals and gold and buy Beanie Babies and buy blockchain and or Bitcoin and buy and buy, take $1,000 and say, can I invest in your business to your friend and, and 90% of those things, you're going to lose money. But when you have an investment in something, it forces you to learn about them. And when you're 20 years old, that's okay to lose money here and there. Because you're going to get exposed to lots of different types of investments.

And again, it goes back to getting a feel for things, getting a feel, as opposed to having to analyze every situation. I've invested in things that have completely gone south. But I know that like if I'm going to invest in something similar in the future, I have experience and I've gotten to that 80% of the 80% rule. And I have a feel for what an investment in that thing means and whether it's going to work or not. And you're going to find when you invest in a lot of stuff.

Be a collector, when you're when you're a collector, some of those things are going to pay off. And I wish I would have just bought some physical gold and silver when I was 18 years old, I wish I would have just bought a couple rentals. I wish I would have just bought Beanie Babies or arch or expensive bottles of wine or whatever it is. And then there are probably a million things I could have bought when I was 18 years old that we've never heard of anymore. I could have bought Pokemon cards, or Beanie Babies or whatever it is, but that's okay. Because some of the things will work out some won't. And when you're young, it doesn't matter.

So just become a collector. Don't don't if you're spending that money buying an ounce of gold. You're not spending that money, like going out to an expensive dinner. You're not spending that money going on a vacation that you're not even going to enjoy.

David:

I like that, that’s cool.

Alex:

My investing career didn't really start until I took $1,000 I bought from TSPY.

Jay:

Yep.

Alex:

Just uh, just like, Hey, I just how does this feel to have to? And then you end up watching it now. Yeah, you know, you really should have an ETF. There's nothing to watch, but I'm just watching it. And it's kind of uneventful, but then it's like, well, now I'm not so scared of it. Now I can do more. And so I love that advice was like, dude, take a grand to go buy something. And then it's like, if you lose it, it's like, well, which now what do you do wrong? And if you don't lose it, you're worthy, right? Or, you know, most likely, if you buy the ETF for something super safe. You're like, Oh, I made, you know, 10 bucks this year that's miserable.

But what is this work? And why is it not working? Like what? Well, you know, losing, you know, making 10 or 20 bucks is a lot better than losing it all in a month. So maybe I could do a little more and the returns go up and if you don't get started get your feet wet and stuff, then you can ever experience the gains because God forbid you buy something I did well with that you're like, well, well, how much more can I do? You get the dopamine.

Jay:

Yep, I own baseball cards from the 80s that are worth a decent amount.

I probably spent more than they're worth now. Because the hundred thousand baseball cards that are worthless, like but but I've got like 10 or 20 of them that are worth a lot.

I remember buying the 90s sign stuff for some reason I got into autograph stuff. So buying autographed baseball is a big thing I bought. I was buying a lot of autographed movie and television scripts.

Alex:

That’s fascinating.

Jay:

Yeah, I could. I could reach down here and I can show you a whole bunch of autograph stuff. I have a movie script from Robin Williams with an original autographed signed copy of the script. And I thought, Oh, that's really cool. It's worthless is some movie that I don't even remember what it was. But at the time, I'm just like, maybe this is gonna be worth something someday. And it's actually cool that I have it. And so these are the types of things that like these hard assets. That these days I probably wouldn't waste the money because I'm old enough that I don't want to throw away money. I'm a lot more conservative now. But when I was 20 or 25 years old, sure, don't buy that sort of stuff and just stick it on a shelf and see what happens.

David:

That's cool.

1:05:00 - 1:10:00

Alex:

More stocks are probably a better buy then.

Jay:

Buy stock. Well buy stocks to diversify. And that's the cool thing. Don't go buy one stock, go buy 20 different companies that you like, and obviously diversified, buy some, buy some index funds as well and buy some real estate as well and buy the safe stuff. But take that chance also.

Okay, so Pizza Hut, I like pizza hut. It's pretty good. I'm gonna go buy some pizza stock. Or if I know a lot of kids these days are into CBD oils and Weed Stocks. Great. Go buy some Weed Stocks. Date, take a chance, whatever. And who knows if you have an intellectual curiosity? Well, maybe you were buying weed stock three years ago, and you made a ton of money.

So yeah, just just buy shit. Buy hard assets? And who knows? You'll get lucky. And if you don't get lucky, you'll at least learn.

David:

Yeah, yeah, I think there's definitely some weight to that. I like that a lot.

All right, question number two that I always ask people. And normally I asked this geared towards real estate, but I think we've covered a whole myriad of things. So I'm just going to ask in general, are there any resources like books, courses, websites, whatever that you would just recommend for? Maybe not on a specific topic, but like you have a book or two that you're like, everybody needs to read this.

Jay:

Um, there's a book that I really love. It's called the goal, goal. And it was written in the 80s. The sub, not sub topic.

David:

The subtitle?

Jay:

The subtitle thank you.

It's a book about the Theory of Constraints, which is a manufacturing economics theory that basically talks about clearing roadblocks in whatever endeavor you're in to optimize your business or your endeavor.

And the book is all about basically improving the efficiency of businesses by going through this process of figuring out what's the biggest roadblock or the biggest constraint in your business right now. Clearing that Roadblock, and then moving on to the next one, clearing that one moving on to the next one. And it's an amazing book, it's a best seller but for some reason, a lot of people in this space anybody that's like that went to business school is probably read it but for some reason nobody else has and so highly recommend that book.

And then like I said earlier, reddit and as soon as dumb as that sounds, reddit has some some subgroups that are really good for certain things. So like the Bitcoin in the blockchain subgroup is really good. The economic subgroup, you'll find a lot of articles that are just more esoteric type articles, that your friends aren't posting on Facebook, that will get you thinking about topics that you probably haven't thought about before.

So search out these social media sites and these small niche groups, because you'll find a lot of crap there. But you'll also find some stuff and you need to be good at weeding out the crap from the and not falling into the conspiracy theory realm, because there's plenty of that. But get alternative views on things and form your own opinions. And yeah, read more esoteric stuff.

Alex:

I love Reddit economics, by the way. Also, have you read I love all the Reddit, do the secondary subreddit. So like bad economics? Have you been to that one?

David:

But I'm gonna go check that one.

I get blocked from a lot of groups, because I'm apparently spamming when I'm like answering a question and saying, Oh, yeah, hey, check out this article. And then someone realizes it's mine. So I'm like, well, I should do a better job.

Alex:

Don’t spam, be cool.

David:

I know. Like, it's so hard. It's like I got the answer right here dog in a way longer form that I feel like typing is just copy, paste the whole blog post into Reddit.

Jay:

Here's another really good way to learn something is to teach somebody else.

You don't really understand something until you can teach it. And a lot of people like to look at my Facebook posts. And a lot of the stuff I write on Facebook is stuff that I already knew. But it's got interesting to me because I was looking something up. So I'm trying to think of a good example.

I wrote a Facebook post a couple of weeks ago about inflation. And yeah, it kind of makes me understand inflation. But I was having a discussion with somebody about it. And it brought up an interesting topic and I'm like, I need to dig into that a little bit more. And digging into it. I learned a little bit and I was like, okay, I'm gonna go write like a long Facebook post about this topic. And that'll force me to really get my thoughts in order and it'll force me to organize my thoughts in a way that will make sense to other people and teach other people and by doing that, I'm gonna understand it a lot better myself.

1:10:00 - 1:15:44

Jay:

And so a lot of times I'll go and people will see all these Facebook posts that I write and they think, why are you wasting your time like writing these long Facebook posts that you're getting nothing out of. And a lot of the times what I'm getting out of it is it's forcing me to coalesce my thoughts and, and, and really organize my ideas on a topic. And at the same time, I can teach other people and I can get that dopamine rush when I get the likes.

So it's kind of, I get two benefits out of it.

David:

Yeah, like, like, I wanted to learn more about self directed IRAs. So I was like, I'm gonna write a blog post on this.

Jay:

Absolutely.

David:

Force me to go open like 15 articles on self directed IRAs and read through them all.

Jay:

Absolutely.

Alex:

The world really is the blind leading the blind, isn't it?

Jay:

It is!

David:

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not a 150 year old dead guy yet. So I'm not an author Alex wants to read. But you know what, someday, someday somebody's like Alex 200 years from now.

Jay:

Alex is the king of, he knows it. He knows as well as we do. Alex is just like me, we know, we know a good bit about a whole lot of things. And, and we make ourselves look really smart that way.

David:

The way to do it.

Alex:

Yes, I'm not an expert in almost anything yet. But you know, it's like we talked about earlier when I want to know something and most of the things I like to know are high concept and abstract. So books and talking to people, but you gotta be careful because people like YouTube just said, they don't know, and they'll be happy to teach you. So you got to be careful learning from other people.

If I want to learn economics, I'll go off, I'm like, dude, let me read. I'll probably read six, seven, maybe eight books on economics just this year, history, you know, philosophy, all these things. And it's those things compounds. So yeah, I mean, I'm a, I'm a pretty 80-20. Like, I don't have to be an expert. But I know more than most.

Jay:

And here's the cool thing. Once you start learning about stuff, you realize how intertwined everything is, you realize that, oh, I want to go learn about mortgage rates and what drives mortgage rates. And that forces you to start looking into how bond markets work. And that forces you to look into how the Fed works. And that forces you to look into what inflation means. And that forces you to start looking into okay, how do I hedge my risk against inflation? And that makes you a better investor and everything you learn, you realize, oh, that stuff I learned two years ago, and this random topic is completely related to the stuff that I'm learning today on this random topic, because everything's interrelated. I mean, that's how that's how the world works. I mean, things go together. And the more you learn, the more the pieces start coming together.

I talked about economics. And it's not just economics, it's everything is like a puzzle. And if you have one, or two or five or 10 pieces of a 1000 piece puzzle, that's great. You have no idea what the puzzle looks like. But as soon as you get 500 pieces, or thousand pieces of 2000 pieces, a picture starts to emerge. And, and that's what I try and do in my life is that every day, I'm trying to get another piece of the puzzle. And so I will have a discussion about something and I'll be like, Oh, I got to go Google that. And that'll take me down a rat hole of learning about that one topic. And now I have this new piece of the puzzle. And you do that 500 or 1000 or 5000 times. And suddenly you got this picture of what this puzzle looks like.

David:

Love it, yeah. Love it.

All right. Where can people get a hold of you, Jay? Where's the best spot?

Jay:

I am home right now. So if anybody wants to stop by.

Alex:

Personal address, yes.

David:

Watch out Alex will do it.

Jay:

I live in a gated community trust me though rescue Alex.

Yeah, so check out our podcast. I'm very proud of our podcast. So the BiggerPockets business podcast. My website is JayScott.com just like my name. My email if somebody wants to get a hold of me by email, I try to respond to all of my emails even if it takes a little while the letter [email protected] I'm on Facebook, Instagram, bigger pockets. You can dig me up. I just hit 10,000 Instagram followers.

David:

Nice!

Jay:

And the crazy thing is I still have no idea how to use Instagram. Yeah, so I'm kind of all over the place. So hit me up.

David:

Sounds good.

Jay, this has been a ton of fun I love when we get somebody on the show. And we're like, yeah, this guy has a little bit of experience in this, this and this and then we end up just all over the place in super abstract like thoughtful conversation instead of just talking about, like how to, you know hammer a nail on a house.

Jay:

I don't know if this was worthwhile for your listeners. But this was a lot of fun for me because I talked about the same stuff over and over and over again. And so it's nice to be able to talk about stuff I guess I haven't talked about before.

So this was awesome. Thanks, guys.

David:

I hope they got something out of you know.

Alex:

That's all we care about, I don’t care about the listeners?

Jay:

Yeah, as long as I'm getting stuff out of it.

David:

Oh, man. Well, thank you very, very much for joining us today.

Jay:

Absolutely. Thanks, guys.

Thank you for listening to another episode about my journey From military to millionaire. If you liked it, be sure to visit Frommilitarytomillionaire.com/podcast to subscribe to future podcasts. While you're there, we'd love for you to rate the show. Give us a review on iTunes. Now get out there and take action