Episode 128 | Matt Deboth | Military Millionaire Podcast

00:00 - 05:00

David:

What's up everybody? This is the military millionaire podcast. I'm your host David Pere, and I'm here with your sexy co host Alex Felice with his awesome new mic. And we've got Matt Deboth on the show for the second time, one of our few repeat guests so far if you didn't watch his first episode, you should because it's a good one and it was a lot of fun to record but Matt for a quick recap. Regan marine got out house basically house hacked a 20 unit apartment as his first investment moved into the damn thing and freakin crushed it. And now he owns a whole bunch of multifamily apartments, all on his own, never partnered with anyone and he does this badass cross collateralization thing, which we're going to dig into and we're going to talk shit about the economy and the world and current events and just have a whole bunch of fun the show because we're all assholes.

So that's the intro, Matt. Welcome to the show.

Intro:

Welcome to the military millionaire podcast where we teach service members veterans and their families how to build wealth through personal finance, entrepreneurship and real estate investing. I'm your host, David Pere. And together with my co host, Alex Felice. We're here to be your no BS guys along the most important mission you'll ever embark on your finances.

Roger Vick one Oscar Mike.

Matt:

Thanks for having me.

David:

Did I miss anything on your intro? I expected more than that.

Why don’t you tell us a little bit of yourself?

Alex:

Matt, how many? How many multifamilies did you buy last year?

Matt:

I bought two and sold two.

Oh units? I bought 100. About 100. And I sold 50.

Alex:

There were 250 unit buildings you bought?

Matt:

About a 47 and a 48. And then I sold a 20 and a 15. And a 17.

Alex:

How did you, you do mostly alone, huh?

How do you do them all alone? Me, it took me a whole bunch of people.

Matt:

Well, I bought low, I forced equity through just natural market appreciation, fixing properties up, increasing my NOI re appraised them, got a high appraisal, and then cross collateralized them. Just keep buying more and more. And that's what I'm continuing to do.

Alex:

When you do cross collateralization. How big will they be in the second position? How far will they go in the second?

Matt:

Up to 100%.

David:

Can we explain what cross collateralizing is to the audience that might not know.

Matt:

Cross collateralization is basically it's kind of like taking a line of credit out but instead of taking that cash out, you're leaving it on the books. And when you leave it on the books, you're not paying interest on it because you technically haven't pulled this out of the bank.

So what I do is I take that, leave it on the books and use that as a downpayment to buy another property which typically you have to do at the same bank. But that's how I'm buying multimillion dollar real estate or multifamily buildings without putting money down as I have so much equity and other properties.

I cross collateralized my time all together. I do a quick rehab, usually six to 12 months. And then I get them both reappraised and get them untied together. So they're not. It's not a giant House of Cards, and then I move on to the next project.

David:

Perfect, thank you.

Alex:

So you gotta buy super deep?

Matt:

Yeah, I value add, whether it's read, read a lot of rehab work, or it's just poorly managed high vacancy, all the Class D Class C properties. That's the ones I'm looking for. Because they're deeply discounted, usually, actually, they're all off market deals. They're all usually mom and pop, no professional management. It's just, it's the same as buying a single family home or a duplex that's just run into the ground. I'm just buying them at a much larger scale. I'm putting my management team in there. We're cleaning houses, raising rents, raising occupancy, doing whatever rehab work we need. Getting it reappraised, getting a higher value and then going from there and keep buying.

David:

I like it and I think you pulled management in house this year, too, didn't you?

Matt:

Yep, I got one more building. That's with a third party management. But as soon as that contracts up, I'm gonna bring that in house too. And I got everything under one roof now.

David:

Yeah.

05:00 - 10:00

Alex:

Yeah, that's interesting. I need to work on that for the next one. Buy something super deep value, but actually Interestingly enough, I am thinking about going the opposite way going to A class.

Do you have any problems with you saying you kicked all the tenants out?

Matt:

Usually, I just try and kick the ones that are bad, the bad apples out the ones that don't pay or, you know, they're friends with the landlord or the previous owner, and they're staying there for dirt cheap, or they're just kind of doing half assed jobs to get by on their rent. Because my main focus now is I'm trying to vertically integrate. So I've got property management in house, I've got all my own handymen, my cleaning crew, almost self sufficient on the construction side. So I don't have a need to give rent breaks to people for doing odd jobs.

And most of the time, those landlord buddies and friends, you know, they can't pass a credit application, they're not gonna be able to pay for rent. So the perfect time to get them out is when day one, when I close, I go in there and I say, Hey, this is the plan. You know, if you like it, you can stay inside a new lease on my terms, or you can hit the road and we'll turn your unit and get market rent for it.

Alex:

I'm gonna do that same thing right now. I'll do that same thing right now.

Do you tell everybody all at once?

Matt:

Yep, everybody, day one, within 60 minutes of closing there. My property manager is already at the property with the keys with notices, she posts them on the doors saying this is what's going on. If you have any questions, call me.

And then she knows for the next 96 hours, it's going to be nonstop phone calls, emails, what do I do about this, the last landlord did this or that. That's why during your due diligence and closing, you get everything in writing, like tenant and apartment 47. This is their security deposit and get that all in writing that way the tenant can't come back and be like, well, I paid six months of rent, which you know, it didn't happen because you got prorated rents, and everything's in black and white for you to show them.

Alex:

Right.

So do you find that that's actually more difficult with the mom and pop owners though? The, you know, the organization is less? Let's say that leases are?

Matt:

Oh, yeah. It's terrible.

Because leases, I mean, last this building I just bought a couple weeks ago there. I mean, they still had carbon copy leases, it’s what they were using.

So I mean, there are people that have been in there for 30 years paying the same rent. That's why I got it at such a discount because it was such a below market value with rents. So now, the best thing to do is go in there and say, Hey, I'm the new guy. This is the term if you don't like it, leave.

I know you're friends with this guy. And, you know, I know you guys were buddies, or I know you were paying to get by around but you know what, why this is our team, we run it as professionally as possible. Pay this amount or get out.

David:

Yeah, one of my favorite things to hear when I'm talking to a, like direct to a seller is when you ask them about the lease. And their answer is, oh, well, they've just been there forever. So there is no lease.

Like, that's the best thing you could possibly tell me because I know within 30 days of closing, that person will be gone or at market value. Because you can just walk in and say, Hey, you got 30 days, or you're paying this and no problem if they're the worst thing in the world is when you got someone who's been in there for like 20 years, they're still paying like three or 400 bucks a month, like, you know, 2,3,4,5 $600,000 under market value. And they got nine months left on their lease, because they're still keeping up on the paperwork. And you're like, crap.

So yeah, I love I almost love when it's, you know, carbon copy or nothing. And it's like, Alright, well, they didn't raise the rent. But at least I'm not stuck with this guy.

Alex:

Yeah, I didn't have any of that. Luckily, on this one. We had some people pick up, might leave, or people are just about to leave, or their lease records are actually good. Because on this one what we did, we had it there was a third party management company. So they were like, kinda had their stuff together. They were kind of organized. So our documents were in good shape. That's all I was asking. Kind of what your experience has been like.

Matt:

Yeah, I mean, it's all across the board. Some, some buyers are really good. They have everything in their own property management software, and they can email it and everything. I mean, I closed on a 22 unit a couple years ago, and the guy literally handed me a garbage sack full of carbon copy receipts, say and this is everybody that's paid rent in the last three years.

Alex:

How do you find a deal?

Matt:

Deals? Off market deals. I got a power broker. I mean, he's just a bulldog. He's out there. making phone calls, networking. I don't know if the guy probably drinks six pots of coffee a day with everybody just constantly going to meetings to meetings to meeting networking.

The biggest thing he does, I think, which is a good lesson for everybody is he brings so much value in everybody's always hooking people up. You know, I know this contractor, I know, this, this property management company. I know. You know, this guy does siding, this guy does roofing, so everybody's kind of connected to him in some way. And he just finds these off market deals that are just unbelievable.

10:00 - 15:00

Matt:

And the reason he brings it to me first is because I'm a proven buyer, I have a good track record, I have the net worth, I don't retrade I'm not going to nitpick every little thing, I'm going to do my own due diligence and not have him do other things that realtors do. Like I don't need him to do a pro forma, I can do my own pro forma. I don't need him to call utility companies and get averages. I do all that on my own. So he just basically brings me the deal. He's the middle management communication. I run my own numbers on my own spreadsheet, if I got a question for the seller, he's the middleman for it. He gets me the answer quickly. He's selling me to the seller saying, hey, this guy's got a pre approval letter. He's putting $50,000 down, it's going hard day one, he's gonna do his due diligence. Let him do his thing. He's gonna ask you minimum questions. And go, I guarantee that will close.

Alex:

You don't do any earnest money, you go hard day one?

Matt:

I have the floor to get a deal, just to show that I was serious. Because it's so it's so competitive right now.

I mean we're only what, 27 days into the first year or the new year. But already 2021 is a different market from 2020. Like, there are people right now that are buying at four and five caps in my area, that I just I would never believe that they excel for that.

So now I have to change my strategy. As far as closing, I have to be like, Hey, this is going to go hard within you know, either day one or 10 days of going hard whether I've done or not.

David:

Yeah I've got a going back and forth right now with a third party broker on potentially selling my 10 unit. And you guys have heard me talk about this a few times. And I had basically settled on refinancing and pushing the term out and pulling capital and enjoying the interest rates until a 10 unit popped up on the market two miles from mine and sold for $200,000 more than it should have, which at the price point it's at is like a 40% jump. And it's selling at a six cap. And I was like there's no way.

So I happened to mention it to my guy. I was like, Yo, this, I bought this thing at a 12 cap, you think there's any chance I can get seven or eight. He was like, I could get you six and a half. Like, alright, well, how about you? Like, I'm getting it appraised to refi. See what you can do. And I bought this thing at 212, three years ago, and someone's talking to me right now about maybe 450. And I'm like, Okay, look, if I could walk away from this thing with that kind of return in three years pay off, like everything I own and still have like $150,000 in operating capital? I would, you know, because I don't think it's worth anywhere near that. So why would I not?

Anyway, yeah, it's just kind of nuts what people are willing to pay right now.

Matt:

I think the biggest thing that people don't realize with multifamily and single family is like, my broker will bring me a deal. I'll kind of do a little bit of DD on it due diligence and try to get my numbers in the ballpark.

Then Monday, I'll submit an lol and I say I want this information so I can get it put under contract. So they'll have you know, three, four days, they'll give me all this information. On Friday, I'll submit an offer. And I've that in that whole week. I've already done 95% of my due diligence. I've already called the utility companies, I've kind of done a, you know a walkthrough of most of the unit did everything I could possibly do.

Friday, I'll submit an offer. And I'll say, hey, Monday morning. This is what my, this is what I offer is Friday, I want to sign by Monday, if you agree $30,000 will go hard on Monday.

Because I've already had that due diligence. I don't have time to waste it. But my worst case scenario is I put $30,000 down and I don't like it, I lose it. Yeah, that would suck 30 grands, a lot of money. But if I do close on it, and I've got a million or a million and a half dollars with the equity on this the day of closing, to me that's worth it worth the gamble.

I mean, it would suck losing 30 grand.

Alex:

Especially if you're doing some due diligence, you mean and you know the market really well. And you have experienced the deals. It's like, it's not like you're going into this thing blind.

David:

Yeah, you're not throwing? Yeah.

Alex:

Sorry.

Matt:

I know the market and I can put my team, my team can come with me. And they can say hey, yeah, this is what these units are going to rent for.

The only thing I'm unsure of is what every single unit is, looks like, for as far as the physical aspect. So even if I wrote do you run into major damage where Oh, now I have to replace floor coverings or kitchen cabinets. I already have, you know, a line full of guys waiting to do that work.

So yeah, it'll set me back a little bit. But the equity that I'm gonna gain from doing that is exponential.

Alex:

Since you refi the cash out or you re collateralize you, you're you're spending you can basically float that money until you do the refi anyway.

David:

Yeah.

Matt:

And then when I refi can either pull my money out if I have to whatever money I like, if I put 100 grand in after closing and my own money for rehab, and then a year later I'm done and I want to refi it then I can ask for that $100,000 back, pay myself back, or I can just leave it on the books.

15:00 - 20:00

David:

Yeah.

And the other thing is $30,000, like you said, is a lot of money. But it's not a make or break, right? Like you are doing well enough that a $30,000 loss would suck. But it's a small enough percentage of your income net worth, whatever you want to say that, like, it's a risk that you're able to assume for the upside, right? Like, you would never say, hey, someone's got $30,000 to the name, let's throw 30 grand down and hope we get all this equity.

But when you're in a position where it's like, I got, you know, property's worth whatever, like, I can afford a little bit of a gamble, because the upside is so huge. And I know what I'm doing. I've got a team I've got, you know, so it's, so it's a good place to be in where you are, you know, 90% solution able to make a hell of an offer. That's super compelling.

Matt:

Yeah, I'm looking at it as I'm putting $30,000 down on a property and I'm making a calculated risk where I'm going to get 10-20 x my money. I'm not sticking 30 grand into gamestop, hoping.

10x is there.

David:

I mean, it might have been more than worth more than all of our portfolios together if we'd done it at the right time.

Alex:

Have you ever gone? Have you ever gone all in? Have you ever gone all in like on a deal early? Would you spend everything you had on a deal?

Matt:

You mean, like all my personal cash?

Alex:

Yeah.

Matt:

Yeah. A lot.

Alex:

Yeah.

Matt:

But when I do that though, I already know the risk, I know that I have a 99% chance of closing that property. So I don't, I mean, I don't care because I know I'm gonna close on it. I'm not willing to, I'm not blindly just going in saying, Hey, I'm putting my whole life savings on this. Not looking at the numbers without walking the property. And I hope it works out.

Alex:

I was just saying, as a juxtaposition to what David was saying, where he says, Well, 30 grand, at least you can afford the loss. And I'm like, have you ever taken one that you really kind of couldn't afford the loss? But you knew, it’s not gamble, but you knew. It's like, Well, you know, still you just never know, right? Like, there's always that chance. I've done so I've done it, too. That's why I was asking.

David:

Yep. Yep. Guilty.

Alex:

I think you have to, I think the first bet is the first big bet you make you have to bet on yourself.

David:

I argue that this is like one of the single greatest things about being in the military when you invest in real estate.

Because if you're 25, and you're a E five, in the military, or whatever, and you go all in on a property and you lose your shirt, you still have housing paid for food paid for, like a job, you're like, losing your shirt is not nearly as bad as if you lost your shirt in a world where like, you have no stability.

I'm not telling people to go lose their shirt. But like, the ability to be able to take on a risk when you're early and you can recover from it. Like when you're young, and you can recover from it. You know, assuming you're not taking on the wrong risk. I guess there's obviously a huge downside to that. I'm not going to condone that to people because I'm talking online, and someone's gonna take this and use it against me.

But like, there's definitely something to be said for having enough of a foundation that you can afford to take some risks when you're young, and you can bounce back.

Alex:

Yeah, safety nets are good.

But yeah, I mean, I don't know. Having a safety net is good. But it's a delicate balance, because it's too easy to rely on the safety net sometimes.

Sometimes, this last year, man being hungry, like having no income and just being like, I gotta go out and hunt. Felt very good. Felt very, very good.

Matt:

Yeah, but did that fear of hunger? Did that drive you more to be successful?

Alex:

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.

Yeah, fuck yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, you get this, hey, look, I'm not gonna pay my bills if I don't actually do something.

So let me and I don't really want to work that hard. So let me find a really smart way to do this. And I did, I did pretty well, last year, actually. And for that reason, so actually, I was on a thing as on a podcast or a Ria, virtual Ria tonight. And somebody is like, oh, when's the right time to quit your job? And I’m like, just quit, you’ll be alright.

David:

Not what I said a year ago.

Alex:

Yeah, no, it's been very healthy for me. And as I told him, I said, Look, you can go back to work, don't put it, don't put yourself in prison about yourself. You know.

David:

I'm stoked.

Alex:

But having a safety net is good. It can be good. it does take more risk.

Matt:

I think having a safety net is good. And I mean, you should obviously account for reserves and stuff like that when purchasing but I think on the other hand, not having something to fall back on gives you so much more of a drive and willing to take risk that you know, you have to succeed because failure is not an option.

Alex:

Yeah.

David:

It's like yeah, burn your ships..

Alex:

It's a what?

David:

Burn your ships Cortez. Yeah.

20:00 - 25:00

David:

Yeah, it's like well, I guess I guess the, I guess the good medium here would be like having a safety net is great, but that like you have a safety net. So Fucking jump not well, I have a safety net, but I'm still gonna play super safe because I don't want to use the safety net like, go for it to safety is that I don't know.

Alex:

It's a delicate balance. I'll tell you what I couldn't do what I did last year without the rental income.

Like if I had no money coming in it even harder. So having, but the fact that I built that safety net, that's the only thing. You know, like the military is perfect job security, which is kind of the problem kind of math problem. It's like, dude, you can't even get fired. You know? You're like, oh, I'll be ambitious next week. That paycheck. Definitely come in, I can waste this one. Next week. I'll invest it.

And so that's a that's a slippery slope to, you know, freakin 20 years. But hey, you were talking earlier about what people are willing to pay in this market for multifamily.

How much do you think that's tied to what we're seeing in the stock market right now? The date of which is January 27. For our listeners.

David:

This is GameStop day, forever a national game stonk.

Matt:

I think it might not. I don't think the real estate market and stock market are so much tied together as it is a buying frenzy that's tied together because people say things are people are looking at all these people all this money in the stock market. I can do this in real estate. And there's a lot of capital out there. When was the last time you saw this much capital floating out there.

I mean, any kid on Instagram can raise money somehow to syndicate a deal. Even if they have no experience. There's so much money out there. I think the problem is, is nobody has anything to buy. So they're just paying these ridiculous prices.

I mean, two years ago, if you would have said, you know, this is what it's going to be in two years, I would have laughed and said no, it's a bubble it's gonna pop. Now I'm regretting two years ago, I should have bought everything that I could have possibly got my hands on two years ago, because I would be sitting way better than I am right now. And now I'm wondering if what I should be doing now is buying everything and getting my hands on.

But I think the biggest thing between what I do, and what a lot of other investors do is I buy on cash flow. I'm not buying on banking on appreciation, my cash flow is going to work because I'm even when shit hits the fan in the worst case scenario, I'm still paying my bills, I still got a 1.2 dscr I'm still paying my bills, everything else that I make above that. That's just, that's my bread and butter. Right. So that's my, that's my icing on the cake, right? There's all the extra stuff. But I think a lot of people right now are buying, you know, what a 3,4,5 cap saying, Oh, shit in two years, you know, I'll be able to make 50%-60% of what I paid for more what I paid for it today, which I don't.

I mean, I don't think it's gonna happen. But I mean, I said the same thing two years ago and look where we're at.

Alex:

Yeah, same. So the question becomes, when did the bubble start? Well, actually, I think they're both tied in the Federal Reserve interest rates.

Matt:

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Alex:

And so in addition to posting on Facebook, all this nonsense today, I posted that they're going to keep rates low. For..

David;

Yeah.

ALex:

They keep saying it.

David:

I mean, that's even if even if all the other market factors signal bust, right, like on the real estate side, right, all of a sudden, permits stop getting pulled, housing inventory increases and everything else with rates this low? I mean, I don't, it's not gonna be like a freefall, it would be like a slow, I feel like it would I mean, with rates this low, I can't help but think it would be a much slower decline than any other.

I mean, even if it goes down, it would just, I can't see a freefall without the interest rates, climbing, right? It'll go. I mean, it could very well go down. But it's weird not to be in.

Alex:

Well, the problem is more, more loans are shorter term and variable rate than you're thinking big loans, two years, three years. And variable rates a lot of SBA loans are variable rate, a lot of big loans are variable rate.

And so when the rates come up, if you don't have the cash flow, if you bought something like six months ago, and you don't have big cash flow, and now rates come up, and you get in a crunch, quickly, that's going to trickle down real fast. That's what we saw, that’s we saw in 2018, the rates come up 2 points or not even they came up 75 basis points was that much or that point a half something that might have been point half, and they yanked it back, because they saw the default rate rates go up immediately, which tells me that even though we've had 12 years of low rates, people still they're fiscally irresponsible, always.

David:

I want to take it as much as they can right now.

Alex:

If you subsidize it, you just give yourself less options. So when it does, when it comes down to the bottom line, that's when it stays on the bottom and people are buying and buying when it comes up a little bit, people are gonna come into a crunch because they're not just gonna save and they're invested in all this nonsense. Like Matt said the liquidity is insane.

25:00 - 30:00

David:

Pulling every single penny out of their house instead of just like taking the rate and lowering their terms. Or, you know, whatever I mean, which not to say that that's a bad thing or enemy, if you pull your equity and you've got, like, that could be a very good decision, you know, but just a very interesting, I'm trying to get rid of any bad debt and build a cash position just to make sure I'm covered in case of whatever, while still buying deals.

Alex:

They're gonna print money, cash, get out of cash by debt.

David:

Yeah.

Alex:

What do you think that's right.

Matt:

I mean, I agree, because I mean, some of these loans, you can get a 5-10 year locked in interest rate, whatever three and a half 4%, some of those loans are assumable. So even if the rates go up, and you can sell that property with that three and a half percent interest rate, and everyone else is paying 6%, you just added a shit ton of value to your property, because you have this locked rate in which that's another thing people don't understand is if you if you can get a loan is assumable by a qualified buyer, and they get can lock that loan and interest in.

Alex:

And Basically you have an option.

Matt:

Yeah, you're adding value without even actually adding value, you're just locking in with them.

David:

That’s smart, I like that.

Alex:

The Freddie Mac loan that I just bought. I did it 3.5% five year assumable non recourse.

David:

I love it. That's insane. And that's, for those of you listening, that's not on a house that's on a 52 unit apartment complex. That's awesome.

Alex:

My goal for 2021 is to go get a bunch of those loans. That's my number one investment, go buy that debt for that exact reason. Not that exact reason. But one of those reasons.

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Matt:

I was gonna say I think a big, big thing that people don't understand about overpaying for property that cash flow as well is if you buy a million dollar apartment building, and it pays the debt at the worst case scenario I'm saying, you know, 20% vacancy drop rents by 20%. The very, very hardest stress that you can put on that property. And if you're paying a million dollar debt, who gives a shit if in a year from now, it's only valued at $500,000 because it's still supporting a million dollar valuation.

So just ride that bottom out where it goes down to 500,000 you don't need to sell. If you need to sell then you have a problem. I'm in a position where I don't need to so I'm gonna hold these properties for 20-30 years, it might be a legacy thing. So I don't have to sell the property. I don't care if I buy a million dollar property today. And next year, it's only worth 500,000 because my cash flow today is supporting a million dollar loan.

So if it goes down, oh well big deal. But you know what, and more than likely in a few years, it's going to go back up. It's going to increase in value. I'm going to pay the principal down. Interest rates might still be low. I can still refinance. I don't have a problem with it. That's why a lot of people who are buying shit right now don't think they realize when they're buying them and they're running the numbers and they're not putting them under a stress test and if you know, it's 100% occupied. We're not dropping rents, it's barely crack cash flow. And I think those are the guys that are gonna have to pay the check when it comes to do it because they're gonna be like, well, I don't I can't pay this anymore. Let the bank take it.

Alex:

Yeah, we did pretty good. I really liked the way we structure a deal actually with the B class reliable rents right below market rents. So rents drop, ours are like less likely to come down. It's a, we can pay our investors our preferred return at 85% occupancy. Is that good?

Matt:

Yeah, very good.

30:00 - 35:00

Alex:

Yeah. So right now I think we're at like, I think we have three vacancies. So we turned it over some people left which I think is expected but yeah. If I can do another few of these, and the same thing with the people that are our investor listeners who are buying Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, excuse me, Fannie Mae's single family residential 30 year loans. I don't know what the investment 75% loan to value loan is right now what those rates are, but my guess is 4% or under.

David:

I got 4 flats for a 20. No, 30 year and 15% down on five units for four properties on a portfolio. Like.

Alex:

Oh, that's a commercial loan.

David:

Yeah.

Alex:

Yeah. What's, what's the balloon? It's 20 year, 20 year. That's pretty good.

David:

Yeah, I'll take it.

I mean, it's, you know, it's not a it's not a huge deal, but there was just enough equity in it that it was like, Okay, yeah, I'll hold that forever.

Alex:

Also, Matt, I have to formally and aggressively disagree with you.

David:

He says as he turns off his camera and gets really soft and gentle.

Alex:

Shut up. Like my battery. My batteries are..

David:

Warmerly and aggressively.

Alex:

My battery and my cameras are dead.

Paying overpaying for property makes you a sucker. There's no you can't justify that to me. You suck. That's not even a good that doesn't make you a good investor.

Matt:

I agree. I don't overpay for property.

David:

I can feel the aggression. Alex.

Oh, man..

Alex:

My camera. I think my camera died. So I don't think I have a video anymore. I'm sorry.

David:

Perfect. The podcast ratings are gonna increase immediately.

Alex:

Thanks.

David:

I’m here for you. Oh, man.

Alex:

Okay, so Matt, what's, what's the goal for 2021?

Matt:

I want to hire a personal assistant by June 1st.

David:

Hell yeah.

Matt:

That takes care of all my stuff, all my personal email, all that stuff. And I'd like to buy I don't know maybe another 50 units this year and something that's not a huge huge value add something more turnkey, just maybe ran badly or mom and pop want to get rid of it. For some reason, distressed property. I just don't want a lot of I don't want another big big project. But I'd like to get to probably 300 units this year. If I can. Take a break.

Alex:

Take a break , let’s call it a vacation. Where are we going?

Matt:

Where do you want to go? You're always going to Cabo and everywhere.

Alex:

Oh, jealous. Let's go to um, let's go somewhere. We can hike somewhere like..

Matt:

Let’s go to the Appalachian Trail.

Alex:

That's such a math thing to say. I was gonna say like, I don't know. I mean, North Africa.

David, you're 100% not invited.

David:

Oh, I'm sorry. Let me cut the feed real quick. So if I mute him and we can't see him?

Alex:

Yeah. Let's um, let's go when you want to go when you are free?

Matt:

Probably in the fall time.

Alex:

Oh, god. I'm gonna have to be on like six trips between now and then.

Matt:

I got three kids. I can't just pack up and leave.

Alex:

Yeah, well. Okay, make me feel bad about being single.

David:

Oh, man. Oh, goodness. Goodness. gracious.

Well, Matt, what aren't you trying to take like six months off a year for like the rest of your life after this year? Wasn't that something? Was that you? That was..

Matt:

Yeah, that’s my point on June 1st.

David:

Hell, yeah.

Matt:

June 1st, I want to be able to not do anything. I don't want to check my bank account. I don't have a personal assistant that does all of it. And just take six months off, spend time with my family. And then try and regroup from there.

David:

I think that's really cool.

I think that's Yep, I think that's awesome.

Alex:

Yeah, I like that.

David:

Maybe we can do some hiking.

Alex:

Yeah.

I'll go to the Appalachian Trail. I'll just give me a hard time.

Matt:

Get an Airbnb at the Lake of the Ozarks.

David:

Eyyy.

Dude, I'm like an hour.

Matt:

I think I'm four.

David:

Hell, yeah. We'll meet up there. Alex can find his way.

Alex:

Don't let David plan for Airbnb.

35:00 - 40:00

David:

Oh my god, Alex. Worst friend ever. Not really. But yeah, for those of you who don't have any idea what's On David Blaine this super badass six dudes that sound super weird when I say that Yeah, anyway so basically six guys mastermind and talking real estate up in the mountains here in Cali we're gonna like try to do some snowmobiling and shit talk real estate goals, whatever. I'm trying to do it forever.

And you know I live in California right now, which means there's this pandemic and it's California. So I cancelled on and I was like, Okay fine. I asked him like, is this a? Is this a you guys thing? Or is this an every one thing and they're like, Oh, it's us, so I booked another one. And then they were straight up like, yeah, the city is gonna come in and evict you and fine you $1,000 unless you're all one household, so they canceled again. I called like every city in the area, and it was all the same. So then we all know, had to suck it up and go to Vegas, which actually was a ton of fun. So that was my first time on the strip. Good times.

Matt:

We need to get a war room mastermind conference going.

David:

Yeah, that's the hope. Both Stu and I should be I mean, I should be done with the military this year. Stu is not far behind and assuming COVID restrictions lift that's that's the plan is to absolutely do that.

Alex:

I’m down to that. 100%.

David:

Let Alex plan the Airbnb so he can't gripe.

Alex:

My photography rates are very high these days, by the way?.

David:

No, no one asked.

Alex:

Yeah, but you’re gonna.

Matt:

Off topic of podcast, what the hell's going on with BP Con? Anybody heard?

Alex:

They are gonna address it.

Matt:

Are there schedules for this year?

Alex:

Nahh they don't they haven't really announced I don't think they really messed with it. I think they're just kind of waiting to see how the world's gonna turn out.

The girl who puts the conference together. I spoke to her about a month ago. And she's like, I'm not even gonna think about it till March. Because we don't know. And there's no reason in like making a bunch of mental energy thinking to do it when you don't know.

So they have the I think as far as I know, I'm assuming I don't know this. I think they have everything booked like they had booked last year. So I'm sure they have a cancellation trigger date.

David:

Yeah.

Matt:

Oh, here's my, here's my next big question. Since you guys are both even BP.

One. Why is there not a bigger pockets, multifamily podcast and two, whatever happened with you being the veteran liaison?

David:

I can't speak to multifamily podcasts, although they are writing those two multifamily books right now. Like part one and part two or something like that. So maybe they're moving a little bit more into that space? I don't know.

I almost wonder if it's just because there are. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just because there's kind of an interesting rap for some people in the syndication world. And I don't know, I don't want to speculate on that.

As for the second piece? It's a great question. And it has been brought up several times. I've talked to Mindy about it. She's brought it up to Scott, it just obviously not a main priority, but it's for them. But it's still floating around and is still getting brought up. I'm still trying to work that piece. Who knows?

Alex:

As far as the multifamily goes for BP? I think they, I think they've done that kind of what they what the way they did it is they broke out the podcast from larger, more seasoned veteran real estate investors as the main podcast. And the rookie podcast is for people with 10 deals or less, which I believe is something like 96% of their use, I'm guessing on that number, but 90% of their user base is 10 deals or less.

So I think that's how they did it. Although they haven't branded it the way you said it, I think that's kind of the gist of what they're doing.

Matt:

I feel like there's no, there's no podcast, there's no part of bigger pockets that as for the I already bought my first couple deals to I'm going to take on the fucking world.

You know what I'm saying? Like, everything in BP is for you to get that one fucking deal down. But after you get your one deal everything out every podcast you listen to theirs is Oh, I bought my first deal as a waitress or, you know, I got a great fix and flip. Like there's nothing for the big the bigger guys are the ones that want to get bigger. Does that make sense?

Alex:

Well, like I said, I think that's what we're trying to do by breaking out the two podcasts. As far as the forums go, I think the forums. Yeah, I don't. I wonder just how the demographic is actually interacting with the site. You know, what is that demographic? It's a much smaller demographic.

David:

Well, I feel like once I get to that point where they're doing those kinds of deals, they're probably not asking nearly as many questions in the forum and there's not..

40:00 - 45:00

Alex:

Also deals as you well know, as at, the higher the scale, the more specific they become.

So what works for you during your deals is largely more of it's not going to work for me, because the markets are so different. Whereas buying a single family home, you know, the mortgage is the exact same, that kind of thing, more of the same.

So I think as people get bigger, it's like, what are you focusing on even if you and I still both buy a 50 unit multifamily, you're buying a different class a little bit, even a little bit. And so the strategy is much different, and like, how you try to make money is different. So what you do is not to say that, not to say that people can't learn from it, but it's like, it's so much more specialized.

So I think that though, there's way reduced volume, and it's just harder to you know, are you putting that content out there, Matt? Are you putting that content out there for them? You know.

Matt:

No I’m not. I mean, I'm not an expert in any content out but I don't, but I also, I think I'm a rare breed.

I mean, I don't have a brand so I don't have a capital. I don't have a book. I mean, I'm just me if you don't like it, fuck you. I don't care. I can say whatever I want on social media. I can post what I want. If I offend somebody, oh, well, I don't give a fuck. Cuz I'm still gonna at the end of the day, I'm still buying deals for me, I got 100% of the pie.

I don't have to worry about you know, pleasing investors or worrying about if my book sales are going to tank or pissing off a boss. But I feel like there is a huge niche out there for people like me who want to see or hear stories of other syndicators or other big multifamily guys or something out there. Does that make sense? Like what I'm talking about? No, there's just a gray area where nobody's at.

David;

Because all the guys are syndicators are doing it with the intent of finding investors rather than talking to other syndicators.

Matt:

They are pitching is what they're fucking doing their pitching themselves.

David:

Yeah.d

Matt:

Do it without pitching.

Alex:

He's so mad. I don't have anything to pitch. I raised money this year. I don't sell anything.

David:

So your soul?

Alex:

I never saw a soul. I saw cuts on the internet. I said what I feel like.

David:

I know.

I actually have been growing more into that. And I love it. Like..

Alex:

I think people like it better.

David:

Someone said something on the internet. And they were like, why did you do this, this, this, this, this and I was literally just like, because it's mine. And I can say whatever I want. Like it's a good feeling.

Alex:

You feel petty?

David:

It's not to be petty, but to be able to be like, Look, I don't have to, I lost someone who'd been a follower forever because they were upset that I said fuck online and I'm like, Look, I get it. I'm sorry. But like, that's me. I don't I don't have to or care to or feel like I should change that. And like the whole point of building something on your own or, or, or in Matt's case, not building something on your own is to be able to be like, like, this is me. Take it or leave it. And ironically, people love that.

Alex:

Yeah, I don't know why..

Matt:

Alright, let me turn the tables.

What are you? What are you two gonna do this year to make? What's your team's goals?

What are your guys's goals for the year?

David:

Get out of the military.

Matt, I'm gonna let Alex go first cuz I'm curious to hear this.

Alex:

I got to flip a few houses this year. I'm gonna produce a few more episodes for that BiggerPockets series. That's hard. I'm scaling that in a weird way. I thought I was gonna scale it but turns out enough to do a lot of my stuff again, but that's okay.

I'm gonna do more episodes, that BP series I'm gonna do a few flips, I got one on a contract. That should give me some good momentum. I'm going to try to buy 150 unit property A class in like Charlotte 20 or $26 million dollar property that's what I try to do.

David:

I like it.

My goal is to exit the military and build the platform for one that's the biggest focus is to build the reach of the platform. So I'm going to publish a book within the first two three months of the year. I've got it back from the editor so I should be out march april 1st somewhere in there.

So publish my book, grow the platform reach more people help more vets use a VA loan get into real estate whatever right and then on the real estate side, I'm actually kind of I mean, I'm still so I started marketing more to off market like five to 25 units because I like the mom and pop like 20 unit 15 unit 25 unit like seller finance on a apartment whatever.

But I've actually had a ton of luck with like small retiring landlord like single family duplex triplex small deals, like I have four under contract right now that I mean, I'm paying $12,000 per house on Friday that's worth, you know, three times that and then three times that without doing the renovations, so I'm kind of trying to scale the local I don't want to just be wholesale, but like the kind of vertical, hey, look, if you guys want to come invest in this market, I've got the team, I've got everything, like this is the one stop shop with the intent of the fact that like I'm building it out for myself so that I can continue to buy those properties. And then if other people want to invest in that market, because I think my market is poised to be kind of a hotspot in the next couple of years. So I want to make sure I'm set up to enjoy that. That's kind of me.

45:00 - 50:00

David:

But really, the biggest focus, I guess, in there is the big goal and all that is just to exit the military and survive the first year without going to the W two to prove to myself that I did it, and I can do it, and then grow and go on vacation, apparently in the mountains.

Alex:

Now, how do you set goals? Do you set them by like behavior, personality, or do some metrics, like some people have income goals?

Matt:

So I set my goal I write my goals down from so I'm in abundance, which is really targeted towards goals and building yourself, creating horizontal income.

I usually set down two goals per pillar, like health relationships, or zonal income accountability, bucket list items, and then general concord genuine contribution. So I try to do two goals of that a lot, a lot of my goals, just, I mean, they're things that I just want to do, I don't, I don't necessarily just find something, and do the whole Grant Cardones, try and 10X just to reach my goal.

Like one of my goals is that me and my wife do is every month we try and find somebody in need, and anonymously, either give or help them in some way, whether it's, you know, like buying tires for their vehicle, or just sending them a, you know, a gas card, or something, we try and find someone and do that anonymously.

And it's not, I mean, it's not as a tax right off or anything, it's just something personal that we like to do. And then I try, you know, I try to set so many dates a week for myself to be with my kids, I try to, you know, hit the gym, five days a week.

I think goal setting is important. And definitely writing it down. I've seen in the past few years, definitely writing it down. And making it measurable, putting it down on the counter saying, hey, by this date, I want to do this, like, for instance, last year, I put down October 1st, I'm going to start my own property management. And I wrote that on the calendar in January. And by October 1st, I was on there. I thought every day by October 1st, I was running my own property management company in house.

So I think writing them down is a huge, huge thing. Just seeing them every day, I'm not, I'm not a goal guru, or I think you have to write down 10 goals a day right next to your bed. But definitely write them down and try and stick to them. Make them measurable. Don't try and make them so big. You can't get to them. Like I don't want to say hey, I'm gonna make $5 million next year in passive income, because that's not gonna happen. But hey, I might add an extra 10 grand a month to my passive income. That's reasonable.

David:

Yeah.

Alex:

Yeah.

I like that. And I like the idea of, so I have Google while he's all the Google stuff. But I have goals on Google Docs, Google Sheets, My note, My keep, and I've liked it, whether it's to do lists monthly goals, or like all this other stuff.

And so I think that's right, like having somewhere where you have to look at them all the time. They keep you fresh in mind. You're not distracted by whatever is just coming in front of you. You're like you see this stuff. And this is what I wanted to do. This is what when I was clear headed, sober and being thoughtful, this is what I wanted to do. It keeps you accountable to yourself in a really good way.

Matt:

I think having an accountability partner is one of the biggest things to get you to accomplish because what is it like trying to get a new habit it takes, what is it like 66 days in order to get that habit? habit? An everyday thing or something? Something like that? Isn't it?

Alex:

26 days to make a new behavior into a habit.

Matt:

Okay, yeah, that's what it is.

So I think that's a huge thing, having an accountability part, like for instance, in my goal pod and going abundance, you know, we set two goals. Every week we talk so one goal is personal one is business, that the following week, you don't make that goal, then you're putting $100 into a pot. And then whenever we get to a certain dollar amount, we're gonna donate that pot to charity.

So you know, some guys might have no money and the other guys might have a couple grand and they're just you set goals for that week to help you get your big goal. So you're not, it's nothing that you can't obtain. It's something like hey, you know what I have to get this done because next week, I have to get a zoom call with five other guys. And if I can't prove to them that I did my goal, I have to pay out. I mean, it's a monetary thing I have to pay out.

50:00 - 55:00

Matt:

And even during the week, we can text each other or call each other and say, Hey, you know, I'm struggling with this, or, Hey, I got this done early. Now, this is my new goal. So that accountability group, I think, is another huge, huge aspect that people don't realize like masterminds are. Some of them are expensive, but it's worth it. I think, because you're around, you're around a network of people that are, you know, they're your IQ level, they're doing what you want to do. They want to hold each other accountable. So I think mastermind groups that accountability partners are to lifelines you have to have when, when doing goals.

David:

I absolutely agree. Yeah.

Alex:

I would not be able to do my 52 unit this year, last year, if I didn't, if I wasn't in the war room all year for sure. Hanging out with you guys.

Alex:

Whoop.

Look at that. Alex,

Alex:

That's not even, that's not even a plug. That was just the truth.

David:

I was to say we went from we went from telling people not to pitch to..

Alex:

Okay, I tell people what to do. Nobody tells me what to do.

David:

No, I mean, that was the whole reason behind wanting to start, that was to create a community that was something like that, because I didn't have it in my life.

Matt:

If you didn't have that group, our pot in the war room? Who's gonna hold you accountable? Who are you going to ask for for knowledge? You need to be in something where people are smarter than you and one subject, but you're smarter than them and another to provide value. So if you weren't in that war room, would you have been able to do that?

Alex:

No, no, me? No, I said no way.

Matt:

That's why I think the small monthly payment is worth it because you have an accountability partner. And you have a whole set of resources for you to get to, but you have guys that are doing big deals or no deals and guys that are big into marketing guys that are big enough to fix and flips or wholesale.

You have everybody from every aspect coming in. And they're joining a team where you can just bounce questions on and they hold you accountable. You don't meet your goals or Hey, why didn't you meet your goals? Oh, you didn't do this? Why didn't you do that? Because you were lazy or tired? You slept? Slept in? What's not an excuse? You should be done.

Alex:

Yeah, yeah, I actually got really lucky with our mastermind because I think I'm by far the lowest guy on the totem pole, which I love.

David:

Maybe in some aspects, but you're pretty frickin savvy on, you know, economics and risk tolerance and underwriting and all those other crazy things that I mean, I've learned more from you about macroeconomics this year than I knew the rest of my life. So.

Alex:

Yeah, that's what doesn't get your paid off.

David:

Just gonna give yourself some credit.

I mean, it does when the world collapses and you knew, you saw the signs.

Alex:

Only if you short it.

David:

Unless of course you shorten it, it ends up on Reddit. Nothing like a short squeeze the cost, you know, lives and billions.

Alex:

But yeah, overall, I agree. I'm really glad. I want to do more of them actually. Masterminds.

David:

Yep.

All right. So Matt, what is, so obviously we got your goal, personal assistant 2021 I’m just about to ask you a question or two, like, just as we kind of get closer to wrapping this up.

You've done a ton of stuff that you know people listening to this they're gonna be like, holy crap, that dude bought what on his own, like, you know, and without millions of dollars worth of loans to start, right? Like you started off from a normal sergeant in the Marine Corps and crushed it on your own essentially.

What are some things you think that you could have done a little bit better along the way or that you wish you knew when you took that leap?

Matt:

Try not to do everything on my own delegate, find those that can relieve some of the pressure for me. I think at the beginning, I was doing everything from you know, acquisitions, to flipping, roofing, siding, windows, leasing, handyman, all that.

And I think it built my knowledge base to a certain point, but eventually I plateaued. And the biggest thing for me was as soon as I hired a property manager, and I didn't have to do all that crap, I was free. I was free to go find deals, go network, you know, go have coffee with so and so or go to the bar with so and so and just network. And then I just kept finding deals by deal flow became so much better than what it was because I had nothing but time on my hands.

55:00 - 1:00:00

And then I grew to a point where, hey, I'm at it. It doesn't make sense financially for me to pay out a property manager. I might as well bring it all in house. That way I'm having everybody's everybody work for you. Their energy and attention is focused on me and my product.

You know, it's not that not all property managers are bad, but a lot of them have multiple owners that they have to listen to every owner is different. My people that work for me, they only know what I want. So they're filling vacancies only for me. They're building, you know, my team better. It's, it's, I think it's, you get to a certain level and you have to bring it in house third parties, not an option. But starting off with I say, five units or more locally, that property manager is going to help you out. So that's a huge thing is just delegating stuff to people.

Quit trying to do everything on your own.

David:

I would never have kept buying real estate if I didn't have a property manager. I don't have the personality to deal with tenants. I’m too nice. Like I would be too lenient.

Matt:

Yeah.

Alex:

I made my property management partner so I didn't have to bring it in house and I'd have to do it but he has a vested interest in the deal so maybe not the same because he does have other clients you know, he doesn't have other properties to manage still that aren't mine, but gives me a little bit of you know.

Matt:

Equitable interest in it. He’s gonna do the best he can and his name's in that so at the end of the day that paid part of that paychecks is so he's gonna do the best he can on it.

Alex:

Yeah, yeah.

David:

Yeah, like that.

Alex:

I love how you're and you said hey, the thing I would wish I would have known was to work with other people better and yet didn't this whole podcast the whole thing was like how do you do this by yourself? Why don't you get some freakin help bro?

Money partners underwriting partners will deal with acquisition sounds like it's especially once you get somebody here me and my partner VJ will do due diligence. We'll do underwriting no problem. You just go find deals.

No, you go find the deals and I’ll raise money.

Matt:

I told you no pitch podcast.

David:

What's going on?

No pitches outside of Alex who does those fit those in actually, you know, I'm gonna start I'm gonna pull up a montage of Alex pitches. There's a couple in here. I know I've got a photography picture too. I'm pretty sure I've got a metal portrait pitch on here at some point. The videography pitch is definitely in there.

Oh, and the firefighter dude. Alex, you pitch firefighter dude on going up to get a beer with him.

Alex:

I did do that.

David:

Yeah, but you didn't close the deal.

Alex:

Always be closing.

David:

Yeah, but you didn't close it.

Alex:

I was gonna tell you. I tell you. I'm a salesman. I'm always gonna be a salesman. I am a really good one. I’m gonna tell you.

Matt:

I think, again, off podcast, I think I'm gonna probably start either. I don't want to syndicate. I think I might start JB. I want to do at least one just to see how it goes. But I think my biggest fear is that raising money is not an accomplishment. It's an obligation. That's the way I look at it.

Like, I could raise a million dollars. That's to me, that's not an accomplishment to me. Now I have an obligation to people, that they trusted me with their money. And I promised them a return. If I didn't get that form, I would feel horrible about it. I would personally write them a check for every single dollar plus whatever I promised them for interest. That's where, that's my problem with partnering somebody.

Alex:

I think you overestimate the burden of responsibility, underestimate how good it feels to make other people profit. And they're gonna be very happy with you.

Matt:

Absolutely, no, I agree. 100%. I do.

You may have time to do it? It is my other question.

Alex:

Well, see, here's uh, here's the thing is, I think, for you to raise capital, you'd have to change your different asset class. I don't think it would. I don't think it would. I don't think you need it with the asset class you're doing now. So you'd have to scale up. Otherwise, what do you need the money for?

Matt:

Yeah, I mean, I mean, right now, I have no problem closing deals on my own between two to 5 million. I can close those all day long by myself. If the ones that are above 5 million, is where it gets hard, because well, because think about it, everybody who wants to get into a multifamily that's new, whether the doctors, dentists, lawyers, whatever, they're so $2 million and below, because they're gonna have to bring four or $500,000 cash to the table. They usually don't have the experience.

Everybody who's in syndicates and everything else, they're looking for deals for 5 million and above. So I'm in that sweet spot where I can do it all myself, but I need to move up to a bigger, bigger price point. And I mean, I get deals all the time I could find that are A Class B class. I just don't take them because they're not value add. I mean, it's just me, I'm not gonna buy a I'm not gonna buy a turnkey A class property where I'm, you know, making my minimum payments and everything, I want something that I can have a huge amount of equity in and cash flow to build my portfolio to buy more.

1:00:00 - 1:05:40

Alex:

To your point about the responsibility to your stakeholders when you spend their money? It's not yeah, you stopped buying what you want, and you start buying what's good for the fund.

You're right, you are right in that regard, where you're like, Oh, now I have to answer them. It's like, yeah, so you may have an you know, what, if you have investors, I don't know, I look at it differently. So I say what if I have a guy who's like, hey, look, I want to buy an A class property. I have all the money for it. But I don't know how to do it.

So like me and him can pair up because I'm not out there just trying to raise money and spend it. It's like that guy already wants to spend the money and he wants it in a low risk, right and take 8% cash, return, he wants to stick this amount, it's like go find me the right property.

I think that's bad for me, that's a better way to look at it than just like, hey, if that's what you like, if you want to go buy something, then then it's different, right? If you're like, I want to go buy this, then pitch that way. But if you have investors, so I guess it depends on which resource, you have an abundance.

Some people, like you said, like, they just go out there raising money, that's all they do, they just raise money. And so it's like, now you have to go spend their money the way they want to. So I guess if you did it your way to the JV, it's like, this is what I'm gonna buy with or without you taking somebody's money and see if you can do it on your terms.

David;

Alright.

Matt:

I think I'm gonna, I wouldn't mind JV and for once just to get my toe in the water, but I don't know, if I did syndicate, I don't want to, I don't want to deal with it. Like, I don't want to have to worry about how a little shit that's why I want to hire a personal assistant. I don't want to do that shit.

But yet, I have the deal flow. I have a team. And I have a portion of the capital for larger property. So I just, I mean, I've got two of the three areas to buy the bigger deals. I just don't know if I want to deal with the shit.

The emails, the crap like that. That's why I really think it'd be better for me to hire an executive assistant first to do all that.

David:

Yeah, but you could probably..

Matt:

Find someone I can trust.

David:

Yep, there's a piece.

All right, Matt, I got two questions I always ask everyone is the first one well, we already covered one of them. So the first one or the I guess the other one would be a resource you recommend anyone looking to get started in real estate book, course, website, whatever.

Matt:

Mentor, go out and find somebody that's already at the top of the mountain and willing to throw the rope down for you. Help you get to the top, bring them value in some way. Whether it's make them coffee or mow in their yard, bring them value and listen to every word they get us to.

Don’t take investment advice from somebody worth less money than you.

David:

Yeah, I love that. Love it.

All right. And where can people get a hold of you?

Matt:

On Instagram @MattDeboth.

Bigger pockets and tripleholdings.com.

David:

Right on.

Matt:

And only fans.

David:

Only fans, hahaha.

Yeah.

Alex:

So you won't do any social media branding, but this is the one you choose.

David:

There's more money and only fans and Instagram or Facebook.

Alex:

Do you think that some of these social media sites will as their markets mature, they will change like I look at tik tok. And I'm like, that's gonna change from young kids dancing to a more diverse user base as time goes on.

Matt:

It already is. Are you on tik tok?

Dude. I was anti tik tok about six days ago. And I got on it just because my wife got it.

Alex:

How can you be on it, only a week ago.

Matt:

Dude, it is a lot like house hacks like do it yourselfers investors, this is how you can do that. Like it turned from kids Dancing in the street or the drive to McDonald's to like real people giving real advice. It's almost like YouTube.

Yeah, but another thing I think you guys are missing out is clubhouse is a huge platform right now. I know mega people on that phone.

Alex:

I don't have Android.

Matt:

Yeah, I know.

Dude, I'm telling you like, there are so many people on there. Yeah, I mean, it's just get on you find somebody with an iPhone and just get on it for one chat and you will see the amount of people I mean, it's a zoom call that people can essentially just join or get the fuck out.

There's moderators who can control who talks he wants to bring. I mean everybody's on it and there's a lot like Grant Cardone is always aren't always fucking running this stuff on that thing.

There's a lot of like there's a lot of big names on there ADTI is huge on that website.

Alex:

Oh, shit. All right. Before he gets mad, we have to wrap this up.

Alex:

I’m so mad.

Yeah, no, unfortunately we got a wrap. We got another one we're about to record.

Matt, thank you very very, very much for joining. Always a pleasure.

Alex:

Matt, you're the man. Thank you.

End:

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