00:00 - 05:00
David:
What's up Military Millionaires! I'm your host, David Pere. We've got Mr. Alex Felice on the show as well and we are joined by the super professional, absolutely wonderful co-host of the BiggerPockets money podcast. Okay, that's all I got.
Mindy:
Aren’t you gonna say my name?
David:
No, I was just talking smack.
David:
This is Mindy Jensen.
Intro:
Welcome to the Military Millionaire podcast where we teach service members, veterans and their families how to build wealth through personal finance, entrepreneurship and real estate investing. I'm your host, David Pere and together with my co host, Alex Felice. We're here to be your no BS Guides along the most important mission you'll ever embark on your finances.
Sponsor:
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David:
If you don't know who Mindy Jensen is, I don't really know what you're doing on this podcast. You should go figure out who Mindy Jensen is, but I'll give her a little bit of an intro.
So Mindy is one of the cornerstones of bigger pockets. She hosts the BiggerPockets money podcast. She's a moderator in the Military Millionaire community because she got sick of seeing people do stupid stuff and was like, please let me boot them. She's a friend. She's awesome. I don't know why we haven't had her on the podcast yet other than scheduling, you know. I mean, she had not shown us a week ago. And then..
Mindy:
No, Alex did not show up a week ago. I was ready.
David:
I know. I just anyway, so we wanted to have Mindy on the podcasts because we like Mindy, and here we are. And that's the intro you get Mindy. You're welcome.
Mindy:
Well, I really wanted you to say she's super professional and then hold on a sec, so I could go like this. The reason that I wanted to schedule an afternoon recording is so I could have a beer while I recorded with you guys. If I'm going to talk to Alex Felice. I'm going to need a beer.
Oh, I should have worn my Alex Felice red t-shirt and I didn't!
Alex has made two T-shirts that say Alex Felice is my best friend. And they love it.
Alex:
David and I made a commitment to enjoy this show, and take it less seriously this year. And you are the direct manifestation of that.
Mindy:
Oh, I thought you were gonna say David and I made it a commitment to enjoy this show with you, Mindy. Like it's gonna be some hardship. I'm fabulous!
Alex:
Am I going to see you next week? At the bigger pockets, rookie event?
Mindy:
I'm not sure yet. I'm babysitting that whole weekend.
Alex:
Okay, I'll be there.
I have made my way in from a bigger pockets super fan, to a prolific BiggerPockets forum poster to a bigger pockets real estate show guests episode 301 to the BiggerPockets money show guest blogger and now somehow I am like the event photographer, which I love and turns out..
Mindy:
How did you do that?
Alex:
You guys don't know how to hire good people.
Mindy:
They know how to hire awesome people. They hired me and I was like, hey, this dude, Alex is giving really great information in the forums. I'm gonna reach out and say Hey, we should be friends.
Don’t you remember a hundred years ago?
05:00 - 10:00
Alex:
I do remember, I actually posted that in bigger pockets wealth magazine, I wrote this long story about how I just became part of the, you know, the BP infrastructure. And it was just me, you know, it's just, it's a testament to networking.
Mindy:
Let’s talk about networking, because networking is amazing.
David:
I'm not gonna let you just skip over this Mindy. He knew what episode number he was on the main podcast, but we had him on the money show.
Mindy:
And he doesn't even know.
David:
No episode reference.
Alex:
I'm so sorry. We have David Pere as a co host, it was not something that I was going to take that seriously. I'm so sorry. I do this every week with this knucklehead. Like, I don't care.
David:
He doesn't care about you Mindy.
Alex:
That being said, a lot of people have reached out to me and they're like, Dude, I heard your episode the money podcast, and I love it. I'm always glad to help, I’m always glad to be useful to people.
Mindy:
That episode seems like 147.
David:
I didn't know I was just busting. This is probably the happiest Alex has been on the podcast at the beginning of the show and a long time because it's the only time that a guest has popped up and I've hit record without a single word. The quickest we've ever gotten into recording. And Alex is always busting my chops for like 15 minutes, you know, because I'm like trying to brief the guests and Alex is like, Okay let's roll!
Mindy:
Alex looks like he's reading the news or something. Are you gonna pay attention to the show, Alex?
Alex:
No, why would I?
Mindy:
Oh, because the millionaire community deserves your attention.
Alex:
You know what our last guest on the show said that this was one of the best shows that he's part of. And it's because we provide enthralling, entertaining dialogue. And so I'm basically done for the day I win. So I don't need to pay attention to this conversation.
Mindyy:
You don't say anything?
Is that your contribution? Not saying anything? Okay, fine.
Hi, David. It's lovely to see you. I'm so glad to be on your show. Thank you for having me today.
David:
Oh, this is Alex's show. No, I'm just here for the ride.
Mindy:
Alex’s show.
Alex:
Dude, sometimes he lets me do the intro and like the download skyrocket.
Boom!
David:
Yeah, and Alex knows that too, because he can see the analytics with no login info.
Mindy:
Is this just shit talking Alex? Because yes!
David:
No, no, it wasn't until, I've been trying to get to the Mindy tell us a little bit about your story and how the hell did you even get into real estate? We haven't gotten to that part yet. Because, well, I'm not gonna cut anyone off from shit talking Alex and I. So that's fun.
Mindy:
Okay, well, I don't want to should talk you because you're great. I was talking to Alex all day long. However, you asked me a question. How did I get involved in real estate? So let's go back to the beginning.
I was born in a small town in southern Illinois. It was called Beardstown. Look at you guys, you have beards. Okay, so I was born in Pierce County, Illinois. And then I moved and I moved and I moved times up to I think I've been to my 28th or 29th house right now. No, it sounds like I'm a military brat. But I am not. I was a corporate brat. And we just moved around a lot for my dad's job. That wasn't military. Although he was in the military. He was in the Navy. So but that's not why we moved. So we moved a lot and I went to three different schools in second grade. And we used to be super shy. Can you believe that? I used to be super shy. But now not anymore.
Alex:
I used to be super shy. So I believe it.
Mindy:
Yeah, really? How did you get out of it? I moved 57 times.
Alex:
No, you go first.
Mindy:
Okay, well did you mute yourself? Why do you mute yourself then you can't even know when he hears you laugh?
Alex:
You know what? I've actually been podcast hosting longer than you hotshot.
Mindy:
Really?
So when did you start?
Alex:
Forever ago. Okay, I’m the first podcaster ever.
Mindy:
I hope everybody's watching on video so they can see me roll my eyes at Alex because you can't hear that.
David:
All I see is a pink, you know, pop stopper on your mic filter there and I can only help but wonder how Alex infiltrated your life to an extent that you felt like you needed pink on the set. I know you're not a pink fan. That's not your thing.
Alex:
No, actually what's better is the fact that people in the they're going through their regular old day minding their business and then they see pink and then they think about me, and I'm sitting here just minding my business, doing my thing. What's up? What's up?
10:00 - 15:00
Mindy:
Okay, anyway, so I got into real estate because I am cheap. I don't mean that I could swear on your show, but I don't want anybody to know that I have such a potty mouth so I am cheap A F. My girls get mad at me when I say A F instead of saying the whole thing.
David:
It translates to as fuck.
Mindy:
Yes, I am cheap. And I rented a house and rented an apartment. I was like, I am throwing my money away. I'm gonna go and get a condo. And I lived in the condo for four years. And then I got married to somebody who had a house and I'm like, well, that's better. So let's sell my condo. And I didn't have any money when I bought my condo, so I had to buy a very ugly condo. And I made it very pretty because that's what you do. And I bought it for $49,900. It was a while ago. And I sold it for 74,000. And I was like, oh, I want to do that again. So we moved into his house and I'm like, Wow, this was your grandma's house.
Alex Felice would have loved it. It was a shrine to Pepto Bismol. All the walls were pink. The carpet was pink, the couch was pink. Everything was pink. And it was gross. So I actually am a pink girl. I do like the color pink. And holy cow, it was too much pink. So we got new carpet, we painted the walls, we got rid of that gross couch that the dog peed on anyway. And we made it look a lot nicer. And then we sold that, we bought it for $135,000. And we sold it for $235,000. And I'm like, Oh my God, you could just buy a really ugly house and make it pretty. And people will give you $100,000. And for the next like three or five flips. We made $100,000 on each flip.
Alex:
When was this?
Mindy:
Let's see. When did I get married? 2002. So I bought my first condo in 1998 to 2002 when I sold my condo. And then I think 2003 or 2004 when we sold the next house.
So it was just lather, rinse and repeat. And when I sold my condo, I was speaking to my attorney because it was an Illinois where you have an attorney to do your close. Everybody hires an attorney or at the time they did. And he said, Well, you have to take that money and put it into a more expensive house, you have to pay taxes on it. And I'm like, No, I don't. In 1997. This is like five years ago, they did this thing where I lived in it for two years. So I don't have to pay any capital gains taxes on it now. And he's like, really let me go check into that. And I'm like, let me go find a new attorney. Because have you heard of that guy years later?
Alex:
Fire that guy?
Mindy:
Yeah. But then we discovered, like I did this research. I'm like, Wow, this, we actually did have the internet, but it was just barely going. And I didn't even think Google was around that. Maybe they were. Where was I working? Yeah, maybe Google was just starting out. But anyway, you had to really search for this information. But once I found it, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna do this again. So we've done it again. And I think we are in our 10th or 11th live in flip. That's how I got invested. I started investing in real estate because I was cheap.
Alex:
And you stumbled into bigger pockets along, people know you, I think a lot of us from bigger pockets. Not. I mean, we know you'd invest in real estate, but less about your specific real estate story more about your community orientation with BP. But as far as I know, you just applied for some job and got a job. And then it became this behemoth that we all cult it under.
Mindy:
Wow, you're terrible. My biographer, you're fired.
So here's what really happened. So my husband started a blog. And we went to this conference called fin con. And I was trying to attend a session during every breakout session time that they had. And I walked into this session, either I misread the title, or I walked into the wrong room. But there's not a lot of seats left, I find one in the very front row all the way on the inside up against the wall. And these two guys start talking. And it's clear that whatever they're talking about is not something I need, like how to move your website to a new hosting company and seamlessly when you get too big for your old hosting company. And I'm like, I don't need this information. I'm gonna leave so I get up to leave. And I look around and it is wall to wall people standing room only. I am clearly the only person in this room who doesn't know who these two guys are. And I am in the front row. If I leave, I'm going to cause a big disruption and that's not fair to them that I don't know how to read. You know where this correct room is. So I'm like, Well, I'm missing to learn. I guess I'm gonna sit down and learn this. So I started listening and they're like, blah, blah, blah, computers and whatever and blah, blah, blah, real estate. And I'm like, wait a second. I like real estate, blah, blah, blah, blah, we have a website where people talk about real estate online. And I'm like, No way. Nobody talks about real estate in real life. Because if I tell Alex about a deal, he's gonna go steal it from me, that's it's super competitive, like real estate is kind of full of douchebag sometimes.
15:00 - 20:00
Alex:
I just want to pause that real quick. And like, kind of, I talked about this on the show a lot lately, the emphasis about how much the culture has changed of last few years about, you know, even, like, especially 10 years ago, but even less than that, where real estate was not nearly as popular, it was not well talked about, it was sort of taboo still, especially after the crash. And the information abundance wasn't available yet. So it was like a niche, sort of weird. And now it just feels like if you say something about real estate people like oh, well, yeah, I either want to get in or it's the most popular thing in the world. It's very interesting to see how much has changed in quite a short amount of time.
Mindy:
This was 2013. It wasn't that long ago.
Alex:
It was after the crash?
Mindy:
Yeah, it was after the crash. And it was just I couldn't believe that they were talking about a website that they had, where people would freely share information about real estate investing. So after the talk was all over, I went up to them, and I started talking to them. And I discovered that the name of their little website is called biggerpockets.com. And I was super excited. I started going on the website, and I'm like, I can't believe this exists. I'm so excited. I have found a place and I'm a stay at home mom with two kids. I'm like, I don't have any business being on this website. Because I've got things to do. You know, all day long. I've got stuff. But when I had time when the girls were napping, I jumped on the website and was like, you know, oh, what can I learn about today? Or what can I talk about today, and for the longest time, I didn't make an account because I thought they were great big scam artists, you know, like make an account, we promise we won't charge your credit card. That was a wink for those of you who are listening. And finally somebody said something or I don't remember what it was, but I was like, I don't care. I will dispute this charge with my credit card, I have to respond. So I made an account. They didn't ask me for my credit card. I jumped in and I started talking and people started talking back to me. And I was like, This is so great. I can't believe people want to talk to me about real estate, like, I'll be driving around in the car with my kids. I'm like, look at that house, can you believe they want 469 for that or like whatever the kids are in the back seat. We don't care. And like nobody in my real life wants to talk about real estate. But here's this place that I can go where I can ask questions, that I can give my advice, and I can share my experiences. And it was this like, Aha moment, oh, my God, I found my tribe. And then for six months, I was on this site. And then all of a sudden, they post this, this job offer, this job, that they were looking for somebody to basically do everything that I do. We want somebody who can sometimes host the podcast, and who can make videos for us and who can talk about real estate and to be in the community. And I was like, I read that job description. I was so mad, I shut my computer for a week. It was like, Oh, I've got kids at home. I'm a stay at home mom. And my little one isn't going to go to kindergarten until August. And I can't get a job now. But I've been thinking about getting a job when she goes to school. So maybe they'll wait for me. So I looked up again. And somebody had asked how long is this job open for? And this is like looking back now. What a stupid question. How long is the job open? Well until it gets filled. But when Josh said that, I was like, oh, maybe they will wait for me. So I sent a note to them. I'm like, I really want to be you know, I really want this job, like they gave a bunch of things that you had to do. And what I later found out was a lot of people that were applying, didn't do everything. I had the thing that the job posting opened, it said, you know, create an account. So I did and do this and I did and like every single thing. I was like I want this job so bad. I was going back and forth on the qualifications and you know, all the things you had to do. I had to make a video, I recorded a video and this damn plane started flying overhead. And it's one of those like Twin Otter prop. I don't know, but it makes a lot of noise. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? I have five minutes to record this. But anyway, so I submitted all of my stuff and I swear within 30 minutes, Josh Dorkin called me and he's like, hey, I want to interview you. Let's hop on a zoom call or no no Skype at the time. Like let's hop on a Skype call. And I'm saying to my husband, because he's a tech person and I am not. And I’m like, how do you use Skype? So he sets me up. And I'm talking to Josh. He's like, I know you. I'm like, Yeah, we met at fin con a few years ago. He's like, Hold on, let me get Brandon on the phone. And I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, how am I gonna do this, I'm gonna talk to Josh and Brandon. At the same time, I am totally going to lose my cool and I'm just going to be such a huge nerd, and such a fangirl, and I am just going to like, they're gonna be like, Oh, my God, forget her what a loser. And then it turns out that I was the best ever, and they hired me. And now, the rest is history. I used to be the Sheriff of the forums. And now I host the bigger pockets money podcast, and I make videos for their YouTube channel, and I talk about money, and I talk about real estate, and I'm living my best life. And I can answer a question in 27 minutes.
20:00 - 25:00
Alex:
I miss forums, I did all of the early internet friend making in my life on web forums. And they're basically as far as I can tell, mostly gone now.
Mindy:
The Bigger Pockets forums are still there. Don't say that.
Alex:
But it's not the same at all. In fact, they even changed the style to look like the Facebook groups.
Mindy:
Wow.
Alex:
So sorry.
Mindy:
Some of that was, how did they say it? We had some tech debt that we had to fix? Like, we just had some old stuff that wasn't being supported anymore. And we needed to change it. But that's I mean, that's not the front end. And you know, you have to change with the times. I'm sorry, Mr. Alexander the Great with your 90’s.
Alex:
I'm not complaining about Bigger Pockets.
David:
Alright Mindy, I got the question that everybody actually wants to know. As the person who has moderated the forums in Bigger Pockets longer than anyone else. How in the hell do you exist there and not have all your crap deleted?
Mindy:
Oh, that's very easy. You follow my rules. My Site my rules.
Alex:
I have like 2500 posts on bigger pockets, and almost none have ever gotten yanked. And they even asked me, I’m moderator on the board, actually.
Just follow the rules. They're not that hard.
Mindy:
Oh, is this a personal question? Are you using a podcast episode to get answers to your personal questions?
David:
Oh no. I know what happened to me. I'm just laughing because I see you in there all the time yankin stuff.
Mindy:
We consider looking for, or offering products, property, services, education, books, yada, yada yada to be advertised. The forums do not exist for Alexander the Great to go out and find deals and find partners and do all of this stuff.
The forums exist to share information. So if Alex wants to know the answer to a question, he should ask the question. And if David has the answer, he should share the answer without adding Oh, and by the way, I can help you because I'm an agent and I have a referral system across the nation. And I can get you an agent anywhere you need. Just email me at [email protected], or whatever your email address is.
There's ways to answer questions, and there's ways to be sleazy, promotional, and if you've ever been on a forum that isn't moderated, you know, instantly, and you leave, because it's ads and spam and garbage. And it can feel like we are being very heavy handed and we are. But the reason that we're being heavy handed is because we want the ads and spam out and the real estate information and education to continue to flow.
And when Alex comes in and says, Hey, I have a really great answer to your question. Here's a link to my blog. Even if his blog isn't selling anything, it's still self promotion to his blog. So we'll pull that or we'll edit it out. Just share the information. There are a lot of people that are read-only members, they make an account and they never post ever, but they're in the forums and they're reading all the time. And they're gathering information. So when you share information without being promotional, then people start to realize that Alexander the Great is somebody who has a lot of real estate information, and maybe they will check out his profile.
Now in your profile, you should absolutely be promoting the heck out of yourself. Give me your email address, your phone number, what you do, what you're looking for, how I can help you and how you can help me because if I'm going through the forums, and I keep seeing Alex commenting over and over again, with great information, I click on his post, and he happens to be in whatever Carolina he lives in. And, and he's an agent, oh my goodness, I need an agent in that Carolina. I never remember which Carolina he lives in, I'm sorry, can we stop naming states the same?
25:00 - 30:00
Alex:
The problem that people seem to have with the BiggerPockets forums is they want to use it as a marketing tool, and they can't until they're like, how do you use this? How do I use this thing properly, and I'm like, you don't use it as a marketing tool, you use it, it's a really good system. It's kind of like a relationship. Like the idea is, if you're trying to get something out of your relationship, and you start with this idea of reciprocity, it's gonna go badly. Instead, you invest selflessly into it. And then you sort of let the universe work itself out. And if you do a good job of being selfless, then the universe will work itself out in your favor. And so if you go in there, and like, how do I skirt the rules to be promotional without seeming promotional? And I see people do it all the time. And they like, try to, like do generic posts that don't really break the rules. But I can tell they're, they're just trying to do it as a marketing tool. And so sometimes they do that, but they don't really get engagement, because..
Mindy:
Everybody else can see right through it, too.
Alex:
Yeah, and it doesn't really generate organic conversation. So the BiggerPockets forums are extremely easy to use and interact with, if you approach them the way that like as, as a community, which is what it's been great at. 90% of my real life friends are from bigger pockets. And that forum, I love that forum. But I don't use it as a marketing tool. So I've zero problems.
Mindy:
Yeah.
David:
Yeah I love it.
I've got over 1000 something posts on there, too. The only things I think that I ever really got slapped on the wrist for Ironically, it was always Mindy to was I would you know, I would constantly or not constantly, but I would say things like, I'd answer the whole question and be like, Hey, if you got other questions, feel free to shoot me a message. And they'd be like, alright, answer all the questions. And then I throw my phone number and be like, if you need anything, yeah, whatever. And it was never like it was never intended that way. But it would be flagged and I'm like, Oh, that's right.
Mindy:
Yes, see, even if you're my friend, I will still slap you down on this site, because it is my site and my rules. And I am not here to make friends. I am here to keep the real estate information and education flowing. And if you need specific military advice, you can go to the Military Millionaire group, and they will give you specific military advice. However, I want to go back to the very top of that and Alex said give without any expectation of return. Because when you're selling something, people can feel like you're selling something. Do you like to be sold to? I don't like to be sold to, remember the whole car salesman and this smarmy guy that's like sell, sell, sell, always be selling. People don't like that person because they don't feel genuine. Now I first reached out to Alex Felice, because he gave real advice. It wasn't necessarily what the person posting wanted to hear. But it was absolutely what they needed to hear.
Alex:
That's basically my entire existence.
Mindy:
Yes. But like, I don't need anybody to sugarcoat you know, oh, I've got this tenant and they're not paying rent. Oh, I'm totally sure they're gonna pay next month. That's not helpful. What I need to hear, what I don't want to hear. But what I need to hear is that you need to give them a pay or quit notice and then you need to follow the Oh god, what's it called eviction process in your state. And that's what you need to hear and hey, it'll all work out in the end is not going to do you any good. I saw Alex in his pink shirt picture.
Alex:
I wasn't even wearing pink yet.
Mindy:
No, you had a dress shirt. You had a pink striped dress shirt on. I remember it. That's why I reached out. Well, that'd be good advice. But I was like, Hey, Alex, you give great advice. We should connect. You can have friends and colleagues in Bigger Pockets. And we just started talking and he was giving really great advice. And now we're best friends. But because he was giving without expectation of returns.
David:
I heard that was actually the best day of his life.
Mindy:
Probably was the best day of his life. And then I got connected with David Pere through fin con. Did you introduce me to David Pere? I met you with Orlando fin con.
Alex:
I met David at fin con too.
David:
I met all of you at the same fin con.
Alex:
Bro, that was 18?
David:
That was.
Mindy:
In Orlando.
David:
So Mindy, I introduced myself to you on Well, I introduced myself to you twice the first time was the starting ceremony for fin con and you had had at least one or multiple of what you're drinking right now. And I don't know that you remember me introducing myself to us. So then I introduced myself to you again. I believe with Doug. So Doug Nordmann and Brandon were like the only two people I knew. And they had told me to go to fin con. So I showed up there and Doug was the only person there that I knew. And then, yeah.
30:00 - 35:00
Mindy:
I remember taking a picture of you, or taking a picture with Scott Trench and you Oh, thank you. Where's that? Yeah, that looks familiar. I think they could share a screen here. I'm gonna have to figure out how to use this system.
David:
The button that says share on the bottom.
Mindy:
Oh, look at that.
Alex:
She was just figuring out how to learn Skype. She was just getting the hang of Skype. And they changed everything on her.
Mindy:
Then we went to zoom. Now we do it in riverside. But yeah, you came up and introduced yourself to me and Scott, and we all had beards. And we took pictures for Brandon because he had a beard. My beard doesn't grow in very well.
David:
That's right, because I just recorded my first and still only on the main show as a newbie investor. And so I bought this pack of fake beards. Realize Brandon wasn't gonna be there. I was like, Well, I'm just gonna take pictures with the beard and tell him what he's missing. And then I saw you and Scott and was like, this is super weird. But we're gonna take this photo, I saw that photo somewhere. I was wearing a fake Brandon beard. So we sent him all about being memorable. It works. It's weird as all get out. But it works. Because all my memories from that FinCon are like, Well, my main memory from that FinCon is Alex and I hanging out at the real estate meetup at the pool and getting told we couldn't hang out there anymore because we'd brought our own beer. And then we went to this Mexican restaurant. We're drinking Coronas. And then Alex Scott and I sit in the back of the like, award ceremony thing, chug and corona is in the backseat. So the pews like just not paying any attention.
Mindy:
I always bring beer to Plutus.
Yeah, we were slinging all the beer the whole toe, the hotel told us to get rid of it and leave. And we took it into the Plutus awards and just passing beers around, like whatever.
Alex:
David loves that story.
Mindy, at the start of the interview, you had said networking. Let’s talk about networking. And I swear, like I got I'm trying to think about how to do a piece of content on this. But there's a piece of relationship building that's like, it's part of this, you know, the world has changed, the internet changed the way you network with people. But I've realized that networking on the internet is only one half of the relationship building. And so like, you really can't develop a real relationship online. Not really. And it's really hard to sort of, it's inefficient to hope you meet the people in person. And so it really requires both and conferences. This is why I love conferences, because what they let you do is you gather all your internet friends, and you go see him in Denver, once a year, or whatever it might be Orlando. And so networking with people online is really, really valuable. But then finding that time of the year where you're gonna go see them in person really is like having a fake internet friend that you could talk to for years. And it's like, not meaningless, but it's sort of it's sort of it's like shredding, shredding years, friend, it exists, but it also doesn't exist. It's not a real relationship. As soon as you meet that person, like in person. Four years of back and forth, the internet just became real in a heartbeat. And now you're like, oh, yeah, we've been friends for four years. We just met today. But if you so if you so I say all that to say like, for those looking at network, like it takes both pieces. Yeah, you should go on the internet. You should make friends with people online. Dude, I made friends with Jay Scott, actually and Dorkin like, I don't know, Dorkin. I talked to him on the internet. And then, you know, I've only met him in person once. But Jay Scott says, anyway, I talked to Jay Scott for like five years and never met him. And then I ran into a conference one time he's like, Dude, we're friends. And now we're friends. And so you can reach out that the Internet gives you access to almost everybody. And so you can reach out Mindy and I talk for that message you sent me was in like 2013 or 2014 I was just learning real estate. My friends and family were telling me I was crazy. They're like, Yo, don't you know that thing? bankrupts people. You better watch out. It's the opposite of how it is today. They're like now they're doing the thing. Oh my god, real estate only goes up.
So it's fascinating to see how short people's memories are. That's really what it what I've been it doesn't matter point is we talked for probably that was 13 or 14 and then we didn't meet till fin con of 2019.
Mindy:
We met before then we met in Las Vegas!
Alex:
Okay, so 2018.
35:00 - 40:00
Mindy:
But yeah, I mean, we spent a lot of time talking.
Alex:
Yeah.
So it's five years that you're like, oh, yeah, this internet friend I have, which I can't. I don't know if it's real or not, maybe it's a real friendship, maybe not. Who knows. And then I mean, personally, like, we've always been friends, I can't believe it doesn't, feels like it's always been real. It's a fascinating little dynamic.
Mindy:
Well, networking online gives you the opportunity to communicate, when it works for you. I'm in a different timezone than you I've actually had in real life friends that, like friendships that kind of fell apart, because they moved to I'm in the Mountain Time Zone, they moved to the Eastern Time Zone, I have kids, I gotta get them in bed early, I don't have time to talk, you know, at late at night, then I'm tired, too. So two hours later, when it's nine o'clock my time, it's 11 o'clock their time like, but when I'm online, I can send an email whenever. I can chat on Facebook whenever and they can respond when it's convenient to them. And yes, I can do that with real life friends too. That was probably a terrible example. But like when you're cultivating a relationship, it's you know, and it's new, you're still trying to learn from, you know, learn about them, and you're, you know, putting your best foot forward. And here's my super funny side. And, you know, I'm meeting people at the end of June that I've been cultivating relationships with online for a while. There's this big run in my city. I'm running, hate it. But several people around the area are coming to do the run and then they're going to have a barbecue in my backyard afterwards.
Alex:
You guys are both idiots.
Mindy:
Thank you.
Alex:
You guys are both avid runners who hate running.
Mindy:
I am not an avid runner. Shut your mouth.
Alex:
Why are you going to join a running group?
Mindy:
I'm not joining a running group. I am doing one run. It's a 5k It barely counts as a run.
Alex:
Oh, yeah.
Mindy:
Everybody else doing a run so I have to run too.
Alex:
Sorry, only David's an idiot.
Mindy:
Yes, David's an idiot. If he hates running and is going to do like you're gonna do an Ironman Dude, that's super sucks that swimming that sucks and running that sucks.
David:
I don’t hate running. It is my worst discipline, and therefore, it is the most painful of the three. And so yeah, it's not that I hate running. I just don't like, like, I don't like 5k's I don't like, like fast pace sprint, I prefer like, go on a 12 mile run slowly.
Mindy:
You can run a 5k Slowly. I know that from firsthand experience.
David:
But that's not long enough to get into a flow state.
Mindy:
Dude, I don't want to get into a flow state.
David:
I like the mental clarity I get on things like long walks or long runs or cycling.
But the other thing was networking. And we're talking like the online thing. I've made a ton of friends through, you know, Instagram, BiggerPockets forums, all these things because like what Alex said, if you're giving, if you're producing content or answering questions or giving whatever, and people find that helpful, they reach out to you. And so I've made a ton of connections over the years, where I put a piece of content out or answered a question. And people came to me, and a lot of times that happens at the conferences because they're like, You're that guy or you answer this or you did this and I have no idea which is always kind of awkward because I'm like, do I actually know you? Or but I mean, I've made tons of connections that way. And it's been super valuable.
Alex:
Dude, the lurker, the lurker aspect of social media is grossly underestimated. And so in 2019, was it bigger pockets 2019 That was like the redo the first one, the first one. It's like midnight, you guys are closing on that bar. I was hammered. A drunk Scott Trench walks up to me. I knew Scott but I didn't like know Scott. He walks up to me. He looks at me straight in the eyes. He's like, gives you that like 10 Second, like stare? He's gonna tell you something, but he's formulated like, who's Asian worklife? Which was this meme joke I had about some coworker who happens to be Asian. Fantastic human being, one of my favorite people. I used to tell stories about her on Facebook. And I'm like, dude Scott and I had never talked really before or very, very little. And I was like, I didn't think he knew who I was. Nevermind, paid attention and then like had this idea and then never said anything. And then you see somebody in person. And that's when it comes out. And that's the weirdest thing about the internet is when somebody like I don't want to say anything to you on the internet, but I'll say some of you in person. That's a fascinating dynamic because the social risk is far higher in person. You go with somebody and like either, you know, it's like asking a girl out. It's easier of a text, but you know, it's harder to do it. Face to face, right.
But the amount of people that I don't know come up, come up to me at a conference. And they're like, Dude, I love your whatever. And I'm like paid. I'm very thankful and grateful that you find me useful. Also, it's, you know, as the years goes by like, Yeah, I've been following you for years. And I'm like, please just say something earlier. This is too. It's too far now.
40:00 - 45:00
Mindy:
So I talked about Alex Felice. A lot. I talk about you at the office, I talk about you at home. I said something the other day and my kid I happen to know, like, 27 people named Alex, I can't even say 27 guys, I know a lot of women named Alex as well. And I said, Alex, and my kids are like, Felice. I'm like, in this case, yeah, it was Alex. But yes, Alex Felice comes up a lot. I cannot stress it enough. I appreciate that you are not selling. There's a lot of people that I know, about the same time that I met you that I don't follow on Facebook that I actively don't communicate with, on bigger pockets, because all they're doing is selling all the time, they are incapable of having a conversation without promoting whatever their latest thing is. And that gets old, so quick. I don't want to hear about all the things that you're doing. Unless I asked about it. I was like, I'm excited for your successes. That's great. But don't sell me all the time. Let's just have a conversation. If you're trying to sell me, I just instantly think you're smarmy and gross. And you have so much to overcome, when I think you're smarmy, and gross.
Alex:
This works really well for my personality, because I don't have anything to sell. So I could just be me. And so people who dig that gravitate towards my personality, because it allows me to be very free. Because really I'm like, oh, yeah, even like what I said, Can't hurt my bank account. I don't care.
Mindy:
Well, do you have something to sell?
Alex:
That being said, I don't have much to sell. And so that does hurt my bank account.
Mindy:
But you have an investment, you have investment opportunities. And what I like about that is you will say, Hey, I might have an investment opportunity coming up. If you're interested, I can send you more information. That's your sales pitch. And then if I say you know what I'm tapped out this month, you'll say, okay, cool. You know, I'll let you know if I have any more. Or you know, if I keep saying that, you get the hint and you're like, Mindy doesn't want to invest with me. But I will ask you, because you're not salesy. Because I have spent this time cultivating our relationship. I will ask you, do you have anything coming up? And he'll be like, Yeah, I've got this thing. And I'll be like, Hey, give me some information. Or hey, at the end of the year, I'm selling a syndication. So I will have money, let's talk. You've got something coming up. I'm excited for it. Not only am I excited for you, but here's where the networking comes in. I was at dinner with somebody a couple of weeks ago, and she talked about the same type of thing that you're about to invest in. And I was like oh..
Alex:
Dude, I have the hottest opportunity in real estate right now. It is common hard. I’m excited. It's gonna be a few weeks. The summer.
Mindy:
I've got people who are interested in it. And when I said to this person, Scott Trench happened to be at the dinner that night too. And I'm like, oh, yeah, Alex Felice has this thing coming up. And Scott heard your name, and he's like, oh, yeah, that guy's really awesome.
And Scott, being the CEO of the company, is now validating to this person who sort of knows me but not really validating to her that you're a great person. I am going to once you ever send me that document, Mr. I never sell anything. Sometimes you gotta be a little salesy. When you send me that document, I'm gonna forward it on to her and I'm going to say hey, remember at dinner we were talking about this? This is the proposal I just wanted to share with you if you're interested. I can introduce you to him because it's for Well, I think she's an accredited investor. So do you have to be accredited?
Alex:
We have opportunities for both.
Mindy:
Okay, so I think she's accredited so that's fine but like, I would love to introduce her to you. I can still invest in this opportunity while giving her the information and then she could choose to invest it or not. But what this does is this introduces you to her. She's a big name. I'm specifically not dropping her name on purpose because you know, she doesn't need to be. I don't need to drop her name right now. But this would be really great for you if you could connect with her.
Scott has already said, Alex Felice is really awesome. So she's probably got that in the back of her head, because she's probably one of those people that remember shit.
45:00 - 50:00
Alex:
On Facebook. What I do is I just tell people, I'm awesome. And then when I just totally say it over and over and over again, and that way when they hear the word Oh, Alex, Oh, yeah, he's awesome.
Mindy:
Okay, well, let's get away from Alex.
David, what do you want to talk about?
Alex:
No, hang on, I want to add one more point to that. It's so funny, I don't talk about myself that much. It's good to hear all of that.
Mindy:
All day, every day.
Alex:
We definitely live in a very interesting world where, you know, I don't know how to use social media, nobody knows how to use social media or very little. And it was like, you know, this little thing, you can talk to your friends online, it was basically like chat, plus a profile, it was whatever. And then like, it quickly has quickly devolved into. For many people, it is nothing more than a marketing device, sometimes a more or less, you know, disguised marketing device, a marketing device disguised as authenticity. And I really don't, I really don't, I'm not good at marketing. Really not, I don't, it doesn't fit my personality type of my soul at all. And so I don't know which model is going to prove to be correct in the long run. I mean, there's guys, you know, there's, there's guys like, in real estate and many other industries that are using social media as marketing tools of various kinds, and they're doing very well. So I don't know if my particular blend is going to win in the long run. But I will say that, it's much easier to do what fits your personality type rather than, like, if you're not, if marketing doesn't feel. I feel the same way as men do. It's like, dude, if you soon as I find out, you're soliciting me, I'm grossed out. And so like, some people just aren't into it. And some people like they don't care, they don't mind it. Some people like buying stuff from getting some people like getting sold. And some people like selling. And so if it fits your personality type, I say, you know, do whatever feels natural, organic to you. You also have to understand that not everybody's into that. And I will say to the people who don't like the feel of the sales pitch both ways, which I'm sure are many, you can make a lot of success in this area and in life, and using social media and networking, and marketing, for lack of better term without sales pitch in almost at all.
So do not fall into the trap of like, Oh, here's a, this is a social media, social media is a marketing tool. And here's how you have to use it like they don't know, whoever's telling you, that's how you have to use it. They don't know. Like, nobody knows how to use it yet. They're figuring it out. Some people have learned how to use it, their personality type better than others. And a lot of people that are really good at it are just shameless. And so like they don't have the IQ because they never feel the because they don't have a they're just shameless, which is not a personality or lifestyle that I would ever recommend to anyone. So if you have a lot of shame, which you should because you want to be a good person of moral character. And you want to have the feeling of when I am right or wrong, my fellow human beings. You know, you can still make a lot of progress on social media, but you just it's definitely a you got to find out what fits your personality.
Mindy:
Yeah, I agree. Shameless is the smarmy people that I don't want to hang out with. Yeah, and I'm not interested in hanging out with those people. Like I'm too old for that shit.
David:
You're overcomplicating social media. All you gotta do is take pictures of cats or your food, and you win the internet. Everybody knows that.
Mindy:
When did you have a cat?
Alex:
Yeah, that’s the worst. That was 10 years ago. Now you have to take pictures in front of a McLaren David.
David:
Yeah, that didn't work.
Mindy:
You should get an NSX.
David:
I've been looking for a toy but I haven't figured out what I want. Because what I want is out of my price range and the things that are in my price range. It's weighing the old. It's like you know, do I buy this now and postpone what I really want longer or do I just hold out and in the real thing is the those cars that I would want. Prices are so inflated right now they're not even really worth buying at this price point.
50:00 - 55:00
Mindy:
So here's my experience with a super, super nice. I drove an NSX for a year, maybe. And it was gorgeous. The people who had it before me took really, really great care of it. But the thing is I grew up and I drove a 1970 AMC Hornet. Go ahead and be jealous. Look that up. AMC the maker of the Pacer and the Gremlin. The Hornet didn't look much better than the Chevette. I told people I drove a vet, but it was a chevette, I had an MR2 for a while second, first generation. I drive a Mindy van now, a little Mazda five minivan. And it doesn't matter if someone dings my door when I am at the grocery store. And it doesn't matter if my husband hits the dolly with the car and it wep into the quarter front corner panel. But when I was driving the NSX it was like this far off the ground. And this truck, this big jacked up truck starts coming over into my lane. And I'm honking my horn like stop, stop, stop because there's another car over here, I'm gonna hit, you know, I'm gonna get hit. And he finally sees me and he's like, oh, like you couldn't see me because it was a black car. And it was really, really tiny. And after that day, I was like, this car is too nice. There is too much money concentrated in these four wheels. And I feel really nervous when I drive this car. And nice cars just aren't my thing. And I had a nice car and like now I have a Miata. That's my fun car. But if my Miata gets crushed I can go out and buy 57 more Miata. It's like they're not, they're a dime a dozen. My NSX was one of yeah, well shut up. Alex. My NSX was one of I think there were 9000 total in the US market and only 6000 remain because sometimes people who drive them are complete douchebags.
Alex:
Dude nice cars make you fragile to make you fragile as fuck, because you're driving around like I can't get a dig. I have too much money. I have too much emotional investment. I have too much. I gotta park it in weird places. It's always going to be clean. I got it. Like, it just makes you so fragile to hang on to this thing that is ultimately just materialistic. I mean, it doesn't really matter. And I'm a car guy. I love cars. So what I say about cool cars is to get one which I don't have. I don't follow this advice, because I don't I can't do it, right? But if I want to go get one, it's like, Okay, what's the old saying like if you use a Jay Z said, If you can't afford to buy two, you can't afford to buy one. So if you want, if you really want a Ferrari, it's like yeah, we'll get to so that the car carrier, the one you can get one dinged up and not care about like yeah, I just don't care. If you like if it has to be perfect, then you're just walking around, like waiting to get emotionally stung. It just makes you so fragile. And like what's the point? That's not I don't know what anybody's here to invest for. But that ain't freedom. If you're like, if you're tied up, and this thing has to be perfect all the time. You ain't free. You're tied to this materialistic nothing.
David:
When I had the ES 2000, right, that was my toy for a while and I turbo it and did all the work myself and it was beautiful. And I loved it. But there's a local thing called the Boston mountain store and local drive. It's like doing one of the spring, one of the fall. It's like a full day cruising through back roads in the Ozark Mountains. Tons of fun, lots of twisties you know, and that's what I like, I like driving cars or whatever. But to your point, it was always funny. I never did it. I didn't care whatever is my daily, but there were always people who would show up and like you could see him out in the parking lot with like the blue painters tape painting off the entire freaking front bumper and mirrors and everything where a rock could potentially come off the road and chipped paint was just taped and plastic and taped and these cars you'd have guys in McLarens and NSX is and Ferraris out there with like just bouquets of crap all over the front they look like they like when you see a car that's on the track like as a you know, it's not released yet and they've got all the weird stuff on it so you can't take pictures of like whatever.
Alex:
Yeah, I love cars and have loved cars for a long time. Can't afford a cool one. And I know a lot of people that have cool cars and they really can't afford them either. And they have their life; their lifestyle is tight. So I love cameras. And like I can go to the car meet and take pics of all these cool cars and then like not have any of the liability and emotional investment and you have the capital. Now look, if you're really rich, if you really got it and you can go off and you can buy your dream, your dream car. I mean, you know, I really would like a 993 Porsche you know, but a 1993 model still costs $100,000 . Like I already know that if I spent 100 grand on a you know on a 25 year old. What does that 35 year old car that can't be replaced easily? It's like, I'd be the same way I'd be fragile about it. And so like, what's the point? It's not freedom, I'd rather go off and buy a newish Ferrari or Lamborghini. And it's like, you know, it's not going to be, it's not going to last, it's not going to stand the test of time. So just beat it. And who cares?
55:00 - 1:00:00
Mindy:
It’s not freedom. That's it. It's not freedom. I was all after that, it almost hit me. For like, three or four weeks, every time I drove it, I was like, please don’t hit me, please don't hit me. And I came home. And I said to Karl, maybe we should sell it. He's like, I wanted to sell it. But I don’t want to say anything because you liked it so much. I'm like, Okay, let's sell it.
No, we sold it at the end of the season. So we sold it for what we bought it for. But we bought a house with the money. So we did that.
David:
I consider that a win, though. I mean, if you break even on a car that you got to, like I've had, well, several cars, actually my last three that I either sold for what I bought four or more. And two of them, I put 40,000 miles on and sold for breakeven or more. And it's like, well, I got 40,000 Free miles out of this means of maintenance and some gas. But I mean, if you compare that to, you know, buying something brand new and watching it depreciate 50% over five years. I mean, the number it's nice.
Mindy:
Yeah, I had to put catalytic converters back on because the guy that I bought it from took them off. And I couldn't pass emissions. I almost passed. This is how awesome this car was. It's a 91 and it almost passed emissions with no catalytic converters whatsoever.
Alex:
I thought you were so cool when I met you.
Mindy:
I am so cool!
Alex:
Oh my god, she is cool.
And then she sold it because she's like, I just had it. I don't care anymore. I just want to be free. I'm like, Okay, now you're definitely cool.
Mindy:
Thank you. Okay, ask me some hard questions.
Alex:
What's the most valuable thing? From our listener community. What's the most valuable thing that they can, I don't want to say extract that Mindy Jensen can provide to them.
Mindy:
Time is worth more than anything else. Find a way to get rid of the things in your life that suck your time away. So you have time to spend as you see fit. Now, this sounds all good that I'm saying this but I need to take that advice too.
Alex:
Yeah, you call me up sometimes with ridiculous problems about poor time management and I'm like, Oh, you are bad at this actually. This is good advice, but somebody else should be giving it.
Mindy:
Great advice and I've had some epiphanies in the last couple of days.
David:
Mindy of the last five podcast recordings we've done, how many of them have you given me more than like 24 hour notice on?
Mindy:
Have I done it with any of them?
David:
I don't think so. I was on the phone with John right before we recorded these, like, Dude, she called me like two hours ago and wanted to know if I can record tomorrow and I was like, Yeah, I didn't know we're recording tomorrow either. That's just how she rolls.
Alex:
You guys are both jerks. You guys both get paid bigger pockets contributors to be on a podcast together and then you come on this show. And I'm here and I'm the only idiot on this show. That's not getting paid to podcast. Wow!
Mindy:
I'm not getting paid for this show.
Alex:
No, me neither.
David:
Well, I've got a phone call this week with that one guy.
Alex:
Hey, I have some hard questions.
Mindy:
Hit me!
Alex:
The bigger pocket community currently does absolutely zero for the United States veterans and military service members so why don't they buy the military to Millionaire podcast that's what they should do.
Mindy:
Wow! Way to put me on the spot.
Alex:
You said hard questions
Alex:
This is not a pitch Mindy we don't pitch on the show.
Alex:
This is not a pitch.
Mindy:
I call bigger pockets...
Alex:
This is why you guys hate America.
David:
I'm proud to be an American.
Mindy:
So I'm going to direct you to Scott Trench, CEO of bigger pockets [email protected] his phone number is, ops I don’t have my phone with me so I can't tell you.
David:
I got it.
Mindy:
It's got a zero and it's somewhere I think.
Alex:
Scott and I talked on Facebook. He has good people.
Mindy:
He has good people.
David:
We actually worked this angle for a little while. I mean we went back and forth about me you know not to throw that out there but like we talked about it and it just never…
1:00:00 - 1:05:00
Mindy:
Look, I am not the boss of the world. If I was the boss of the world, yes, it would be bigger. millionaire pockets, biggermilitarypockets.com
Alex:
Bigger Pockets Military.
David:
Sounds terrible.
Mindy:
So this isn't to say that the bigger pockets community does not support the military community.
Alex:
They just, you know, they just don't actually do anything to support us. Gotcha.
Mindy:
Wow, wow.
David:
Mindy, I have a question for you. And this will not make you feel awkward at all.
Mindy:
Wow! Are you sure?
David:
What is your best military joke? Like if you had to talk shit to a service member? Because I know how much you always worry about offending people. So here's your chance. Nobody on the show will be offended.
Mindy:
I never want any service member to feel that I don't respect them, or what they do. But I do feel a little smarmy with that whole thank you for your service all the time. That I'm sure you get.
Alex:
I hate it. I don’t like it.
Mindy:
You know, I've heard a lot of people that say the same thing.
Alex:
As David knows, it's very easy to get me on one of my epic rants about American foreign policy. But we did this. We did this fetish patriotism thing in the United States where we said we had everybody go up and they, thank you for your service, thank you for your service. And I'm like, Dude, we invaded two countries that we shouldn't have. And you're thanking me, this is not a good way to organize a culture. It's just empty virtue signaling. I don't like it. And then what it does, it puts me and I'm sure other service members not not to say that other service members feel the same way I do about foreign policy, but it does put us in a position where it's like now I have to say thank you to you. I don't want to or I have to say You're welcome. What am I supposed to say? Just keep it moving? Don't say anything to me. I don't care, though. You're putting me in an awkward position to make yourself feel better.
Mindy:
Thank you. You put me in an awkward position to make you feel better. I did not serve in the military. But that doesn't mean that I'm not thankful for the freedoms that you guys provide me, you guys, you service people. Sorry, all the women and men that provide us.
Alex:
So Mindy has this weird thing, where David and I will be chatting sometimes on the internet, and she'll be included and I smack talk service members non stop.
Mindy:
Because you're in the military, you can!
Alex:
Right, and I get it. But you're way far on the other side, we're like, I just don't wanna say anything that could possibly be offensive I say things like, you know, like, called David crayon eater. And this, you know, this pretty obnoxious.
Mindy:
I can never explain this properly. You can call him a crayon eater, because you were in the military. I don't want to use a phrase like that and say, Oh, David, you're a crayon eater. And have him be like, Wow, bitch, you didn't even serve. Like, I never want somebody who serves to think that I am using their jokes and I don't have permission to use their jokes or be offended by the fact like a bullet punch that is so awful.
Alex:
I understand but you act like it's not like some like it's not like we get some rare privilege to talk this way to each other. It's more like we all just have really thick skin. So we encourage everybody to join in. You know Miss Kate, my lovely girlfriend, she says there's five love languages, according to the book, but they missed one. My love language is shit talk. It's my favorite, favorite, favorite thing in the whole wide world. And so a lot of veterans feel the similar similar way that's why if you go to conferences like anybody's ever going to conference pay, you don't have to pay close attention pay a tiny little bit of attention and you'll find very quickly that at every single conference, service members, prior and active find each other and go and like hang out all of the military people end up hanging out together every time.
David:
We're like blood clots. We just coagulate in the same area like you know what's going on.
Alex:
Yep!
David:
Usually to stop some kind of trauma.
Alex:
Yeah, because of the thicker skin not because we're in some privileged group.
David:
Mindy it's all context if you say it as a joke and some service member did get offended which won't happen that's them problem because it ain't that's how we are. As long as you're not just blatantly like if you take the jokes and you like you know I don't know if you're like attacking people with a maybe somebody might get upset about it like okay come on, you know, whatever but like, we get the shit talking is real.
Alex:
So I encourage everybody listening if you do come to a bigger pockets conference in San Diego this fall, it's been announced, right? I can say that it's been announced.
Mindy:
Yes. October 2,3,4 in San Diego.
1:05:00 - 1:10:00
Alex:
Yeah, come to the bigger pockets conference. I will be the photographer. Mindy will be there being useless, David will be there also useless and come, make her feel uncomfortable and be like, Yo, I heard that I can shit talk you but you can’t shit talk to me so get ready.
Mindy:
Oh, you're gonna bring it. You're gonna shit talk me. I'm gonna shit talk you back.
David:
Yeah, the joke, Mindy is ain't ready to be a Marine yet.
Mindy:
I liked him better ain't ready to be a Marine.
David:
While we're on the topic of the bigger pocket event in October in San Diego. There will be unofficial Military Millionaire and or veteran meetups every night at whatever bar is in the lobby that we can drink until the latest because that's what happens.
Mindy:
I will be there.
Alex:
So my good friend, Shelby. We go to conferences and we don't. I don't go to, look everybody does conferences definitely some people like education. I can't do formal classroom style education can't do it. Couldn't do it in school. Yeah, I can't. I definitely don't want to hear, I can't. Like I already know everything. Okay. I don't need somebody else to tell me something they think they know. That's crazy talk. Okay, so I just can't sit down for my education. I have to learn in my own way. And so I go to conferences and I go to basically zero breakout rooms at every conference I go to every single time I haven't been to one in a couple of years. I just go to shake hands in the lobby. And we call it lobby con. And so this year Shelby and I got posters made for lobby con. And when we're going to be at bigger pockets rookie in Denver in two weeks. We have our lobby con posters and like hashtag lobby con, hanging out at the bar. And so come find us in San Diego. We'll do the same thing in October and many others.
Mindy:
I will be there too, lobby con. I will have actual responsibility at BP Con.
Alex:
Me too.
David:
Not as late as we'll be there.
Last year, John and I stole the Beardy, Brandon cut it out and ran through New Orleans filming videos of him stalking me. It was great. That was like 1 in the morning. And then I lost John at the bar with Alex and some other people and had to walk back on my own with Brandon's cut out because John was like, I think it was like Alex and Scott and I don’t know, they all got. I was like, Alright, I have a flight in like three hours. I'm going to bed.
There's me with the cutout stalking me. If you're watching this on YouTube, you just got a reel treat. The full Instagram reel is on my social media to the Pink Panther theme song. The best part of running through downtown New Orleans with that cut out was that I was carrying it halfway down Bourbon Street. And Brandon was on the other side of the sidewalk as I'm like nonchalantly carrying this six and a half foot talk out of him through Bourbon Street like Hey, guys, don't buy me.
Mindy:
I was very sad to miss BP Con last year. My daughter tested positive for COVID right before I was supposed to get on the plane. And then it was Monday through Wednesday and Tuesday I tested positive so if I had gone, I would have been the super spreader there. So I'm glad I didn't go.
Alex:
Well luckily for you somebody else was the super spreader there so you don't have to worry.
COVID is over now so we don't have to worry about disease ever again.
Mindy:
Yeah.
David:
True! I hear I get to fly with no masks tomorrow. So I'm kind of excited about that.
Mindy:
You too get to fly with no masks tomorrow if you choose to.
David:
I chose to.
Mindy:
That's your choice.
David:
I didn't get the vaccine. So I had to wear a mask as well.
Mindy:
You didn’t get the vaccine?
David:
No, I'm saying I did not get the vaccine. So that I would continue having to wear the mask. I got the vaccine so I don’t have to wear a mask.
Mindy:
Okay.
David:
So I'm going to not wear the mask. I'm in the military Mindy. I'm still technically in the reserves. So yeah, I had to get the vaccine, but I actually got it the moment it became available because I was like, Well, I'm healthy. I'm not worried about COVID, I'm healthy. I'm not worried about the vaccine, which one of these will allow me, like, just go about my day and travel freely. Oh, option B vaccine. Cool. That didn’t workout for me. But you know, it sounded good at the time.
1:10:00 - 1:15:00
Mindy:
You know, it is what it is.
David:
For all the swearing, we probably just got this show flagged on iTunes by using the COVID words so, or YouTube, it's probably gonna be non monetized. Explicit is whatever, but Mindy what are we missing? We've been talking for an hour and some change.
Alex:
What's the money show about?
David:
Yeah.
Mindy:
Money. It's for people who want money.
Alex:
I'll solicit your show for you that you guys do without me.
Mindy:
We can't have you on the show, too. We've never accomplished anything.
Alex:
Tell our listeners with who's the money show for?
Mindy:
The BiggerPockets money podcast is for anybody who has money or wants to have more. We talk about money. So basically anybody we talk about money, we talk about the journey to financial independence, we talk about the most recent episode that we released on episode 293 is about the ROI of grad student degrees, grad school degrees. And surprisingly, 40% of them are not worth the money that you pay to get them. They have a negative ROI, meaning that if you had not gone, you would be better off. And we go to some pretty in depth details with Preston Cooper, who is from the, I got to look him up. I can't remember what his company name is. But he is. Yes, he's on the internet. Shut up. Hold on, of course my computer is taking four flipping ever. Oops, that's not what I want. He's from the Center for Research.
Do you guys have an editor?
Alex:
No.
David:
We just let it roll.
Alex:
Yeah, we're gangsters.
David:
I'm not even gonna mark the clip.
You gotta be able to flow.
Mindy:
Okay, Preston Cooper is from the Foundation for Research on equal opportunity. And what he did was study the ROI of something like 14,000 college degrees, grad school degrees, to see if it was worth it. And what it turns out is that most MBAs are not worth it. And a lot of, but when you're going to get your MBA people say, Oh, once you get your MBA, you'll make so much more money. Not necessarily, and a lot of those MBAs aren't worth the price of admission. But dental school is almost always worth it. Attorneys being a lawyer is almost always worth it.
Alex:
Those examples in particular because, you know, dental, and lawyers are specialized. So hyper specialized fields that require credentials, and technical knowledge to get ahead. An MBA teaches you business, but business can't be taught by theoretics. It's an experience based apparatus you can't learn, like the problem with MBAs is that the freakin people teaching it learned it from a book, they didn't learn it from running a successful business. And so it's like, it's just the blind leading the blind.
Mindy:
The MBA works out best when it is one of the top schools that has the networking and the connections, just teaching you the random stuff isn't going to get you anything.
David:
So then the argument is, was it the degree or just networking?
Mindy:
I kind of thought that it was the networking more than the degree. I mean it's the three initials past your name, and it is the networking that you get at the school that you go to so having the three initials without the networking kind of makes it worthless.
David:
Got to pick my own initials. When does that come? Like if I can, if I can choose my own pronouns do I get to choose my own initials eventually?
Mindy:
D JP you could be..
David:
I'm going to make up like I'm going to be the MMF Military Millionaire founder, David Perrey, MMF, and I'm gonna require people to call me MMF
Mindy:
I'll call you MF.
Alex:
Miss Kate has a master's in literature, English literature from Oxford.
Mindy:
So my friend Preston Cooper would say, Oxford from England.
Alex:
Bro. She's a gangster.
1:15:00 - 1:20:00
Mindy:
Oh, that's not gangster at all. That is like the exact opposite of gangster but she is amazing!
Alex:
So sorry. I use that term like she is bad. Like to the bone. Everything she does is doped. I don't know how to say this cool like, everything she does is doped.
Mindy:
You're really screwing it up all the way around. Yes. No, she's not a gangster at all. That is the exact opposite of gangster but she's amazing in every single way. I cannot believe she stooped down to be with you, but whatever. That's her only flaw.
Alex:
I like dumb chicks. What can I say?
Mindy:
She’s fabulous.
That's not true. Because she's wonderful. She's brilliant. And have you plugged your video series with Kate? It's so cute.
Alex:
We tried to do a second one, but it didn't come out that good.
Mindy:
Oh my god.
Alex:
But we're gonna do more once she quits her job too.
Mindy:
Maybe John Laland can help you with camera work.
Alex:
That's Mindy Jensen, ladies and gentlemen. She's gone. Now. We unplugged her. That's not cool.
Mindy:
No. Okay, so I can't believe she has something from Oxford. But my friend Preston Cooper would say that's probably not gonna yield a big ROI, is she working in that field? I know she's not.
Alex:
Bro she did it as a dare. Her dad went to Oxford and she's like, Stop telling me what Oxford anybody could go. And he's like, yeah, so go. She got a master's in English Lit.
Mindy:
Okay, well, I guess that sometimes works.
Alex:
Yeah, well, it's good for a good story, not for good ROI. But she doesn't live life by ROI, which I find very appealing in many ways.
Mindy:
And that is valid. I mean, I don't think you should live your life by ROI, always. But the purpose of the study was to show and it was not aimed at people who have already gotten their degree. I don't know that this would shock anybody listening. But my fashion design degree didn't even come up on the dumbest shit you could ever study. Although it should have been right there at the very top. It was more for people who are considering going to college or considering going to grad school. Oh, I should get an MBA because everybody has an MBA and then you look at the study and you're like, Oh, I can't get into Wharton, or whatever the other big MBA schools are, I can get into like Bob's MBA school. Wow, that's really not going to help me at all. I'll just skip it. And that's who this was really aimed at. It isn't for people who already went to school and like, hey, look, you studied something dumb. Like that's not going to help anybody.
Alex:
I wanted to learn. I wanted to learn how money works. I was sick of being broke all the time.
Mindy:
Broke is a choice, Alex.
Alex:
Well, I didn't know that yet. I didn't know that yet. I had to invent it. So I said, I'm gonna go learn how money works. How can I learn about money? Well, I'll go to school and learn about money. And so I went and got an undergrad, and a bachelor's in finance with the idea that like, hey, look, if I go learn this money thing that maybe I won't be, maybe I can figure out how to manage my money, which is not the worst idea. But you can go to bigger pockets money show and learn how to manage money, you don't need to go get a four year degree. Now the army paid for mine. So like, that's cool. But when I got there, I was like, this whole thing is a crock of shit.
Now look, I went to a cheap school, I went to a cheap, nice school, right? It was nice enough, they treated me well and everything. And they provided as much service as they could, I'm sure. But like this setup, the infrastructure was just so inefficient. I remember I'm like 30, right, I go school late. I'm like 30. And my finance classes as a whole, I think like eight weeks of a four year degree. I had, like, I had like a couple of classes, like an eight week, maybe not eight weeks, but like eight classes, right? So a couple of classes for two semesters. Like, not a lot of basically eight weeks worth of information. But I remember being 31 and taking a look at a music class because I had to satisfy a credit. Like, what do you call it credit? And I was like, this whole thing is a crock of shit to get my, you know, whatever it was 20 grand a year or something like that. And it really didn't make me, I learned how to run, I learned how balance sheets and p & l work, which is very important. But you don't have to spend $40,000 to understand financial statements or the time value of money calculations. So I can only imagine MBA is worse.
David:
If only we could bring back apprenticeships, I mean, there's still some out there but that model is awesome.
1:20:00 - 1:25:00
Alex:
Dude, skill bridge, problem of skill bridges that it's people most of the people that I know they're using it are people that are learning how to run a business for the first time, and they're like, Oh, you skill bridge. And I'm like, this is the blind leading the blind. This is useful, useful in many ways, but also, it's sometimes much more useful for the business owner than for the apprentice. Now, if you had, if you had the skill bridge programs, go into a company that's been in business for 30 years, you know, go work for Ford. That's a good, like, as an executive, like go learn, you know, don't go learn how to build cars, but go learn how to run a business that'd be good.
I mean, in my opinion
David:
What's your biggest money mistake? I'm just gonna steal all the BiggerPockets money, questions and make you answer them here.
Mindy:
My biggest money mistake, boy, how much time do you have, I have several of them.
David:
Not that much.
Mindy:
I read when I was like, 20, I read a statement that said, if you invest from the time that you're 22, to 30, and you never invest another time, you will have more money at age 65, than if you start investing at age 30. And invest all the way through to age 65. And I read this when I was 20, when I could have taken action, and could have had that eight year chunk of investing. And I've done the math on the compound interest calculator. And it is astonishing. You don't have a ton more at age 65 when you invest just for those eight years. But you have like $100,000 more, just investing eight years, than investing 35 years. And I didn't take action, and I didn't do it. And I should have, kicked myself every day, I could be a trillionaire right now instead of just a millionaire. So it would have been a better choice to take action. And ultimately, my biggest money mistake is not taking action, when I had the information on my hands.
Alex:
Yeah, my biggest mistake is starting to like as well, or like, just not capitalized, like not even being aggressive, just like not doing sort of minimums.
Mindy:
I didn't do anything.
David:
One of the I think it's the very first chapter, maybe the second chapter after the, I think it's like the first chapter of the intro is about the TSP. And I put it there as like, Look, if you're 18, and you're joining the military, if you could just put like as much money as humanly possible in your 401k right now, even if you only do it for four years, then you can go and risk it on the biscuit and do whatever. Because you're at least going to have something in retirement. And it's like those years are infinitely more valuable than if you put in but you know what I have listened to at 18 maybe probably not. Probably continue to get tattoos and go out on dates and do whatever.
Mindy:
Do you have tattoos?
Alex:
She asked you a question, sir.
David:
Mindy, Mindy. I thought we were. Yeah, yeah, I've got like five or six.
I mean, I've got fucking shocker tattooed on my chest.
Mindy:
Are you kidding me? Really?
David:
It was our callsign in Afghanistan.
Alex:
This is your co host.
Mindy:
Really? Shocker?
David:
It was our call sign in Afghanistan. So yeah, I've got one on my calf, two on my chest, one on my arm and one on my back. Nothing crazy.
Alex:
Warren Buffett is not the highest average return earning investor of all time. He's just been doing it the longest. You know, it's like, dude, start at 15 and live to your 95 like you're gonna do okay. You don't have to. You don't have to knock it out of the park. Like just do it the longest.
Mindy:
Started 15 and live until you're 95. There you go. That's the investment advice from Alex Felice
Alex:
That’s the investment advice from Warren Buffett, the greatest value investor of all time.
Mindy:
Did you see Berkshire Hathaway stocks have been going up lately?
Alex:
I have not. I know you're a big fan of his.
Mindy:
Warren Buffett. We could be best friends except you took that role and also he won't call me back.
Alex:
Yeah. He's done some interesting things. I don't know of other companies that they've never split their share A class stock. It's really good. The prices would have what it is we can't buy like we don't care. We're not selling stocks. That's the value of stock is. So now I think the A classes are like 160 grand and share something that.
1:25:00 - 1:30:00
Mindy:
I don't know what they are, but they're pretty high. They're pretty high.
David:
That's awesome. All right. Let's see. Worst. I mean, sorry.
Alex:
$522,000 a share for Class A Berkshire Hathaway.
Mindy:
Every time I tell people that I'm a Berkshire Hathaway stockholder, they're like, Class A like, no. I wish.
David:
Alright Mindy.
Mindy:
Yes.
David:
Worst. I mean, favorite joke to tell at the parties.
Mindy:
What does the army stand for?
David:
I gave you the answer to that.
Mindy:
Okay, hold on to that.
David:
She's googling.
Mindy:
I am googling.
Alex:
Well, it was Scott. They had a show where I'm one of them. You know, Mindy's funny, but she's not a jokester. Like she doesn't tell jokes. And Scott tells awful jokes. Like horrible, embarrassing cringe worthy jokes. And like this is a terrible combination of people to have a segment on our show that asks about comedy, like state run for the hills people do not engage with this. This is bad.
Mindy:
Wow. Thank you, Alex Felice.
Alex:
You asked me and I'm like, I don't do jokes. Okay. It's not how, without my humor I'm not a jokester.
Mindy:
You don't have to be a jokester. I'm actually not a jokester, either. I just tell like, in the moment stuff. What's my best joke to tell at parties? It's just whatever's going on at the time. Alex Felice, that's my best joke to tell at parties.
Alex:
David's mustache used to be my favorite joke and he ruined it.
Mindy:
When he was on our show, I asked why is the mustache?
And that was the beginning of the show.
David:
That was the intro to the show. That was great.
The funniest part was because that was done. Like we were horsing around after the show. That wasn't even like, part like I thought we were done. No, I was just gonna ask where people can get a hold of you. Because we've been on this for 90 minutes. And as much as I'd like to keep talking. I have a flight to catch in the morning. I haven't packed.
Mindy:
Oh, well. You can find me at [email protected] on all the social media that matters. I'm not on Tik Tok. I'm not super active on Instagram, because you got to do that on your phone. And I have terrible eyesight. I am on Twitter, which is my favorite. Or you can find me in bigger pockets. You can email me [email protected] I am terrible at email. So if you email me here back, it's not you. It's me. Send me another note. And that usually makes me feel really, really bad that there are two messages and I jump in there and answer questions. It's not you. It's me. I just get a lot of emails. But yes.
David:
Perfect.
Mindy:
I would love to talk to you.
David:
Well, thank you very much for joining us. It's about time.
Mindy:
Thank you for having me. I'm sorry that it took so long for me to get on your show. All of your recording times were like nine o'clock in the morning and like how can I drink it nine.
Alex:
Hey now that you have been a guest on our show and you had a lot of fun. Can you get us anybody good?
Mindy:
Who do you want?
Alex:
Guest.
Mindy:
I know everybody. Who do you want?
Alex:
I don’t know yet.
Mindy:
Well, you gotta give me a name.
David:
Donald Trump.
Mindy:
No.
David:
And Elon Musk together. Same show.
Mindy:
Oh, yeah. Elon Musk and I go way back. 2012.
Alex:
We'll send you a list. We have a list of like, we have a wish list, but they're probably obscure. They're obscure military people, but we have a wish list. We'll send it to you.
Mindy:
So obscure military people I don't necessarily know but I can try. I know a lot of people who know people.
Alex:
Yeah.
Mindy:
That's my superpower. I have a big network.
Alex:
Yeah. Well, I started a big network but basically it's just you guys nowadays.
Mindy:
I love to connect people so yeah, I want to hook you up
Alex:
The fabulous, Mindy Jensen!
I'm so excited for BP Con this year. I really hope I see you at BP rookie. And it sounds like my super in. I used to know a lot of people with bigger pockets. And now I know basically three people. Turns out all of them are like getting promoted all the time. So it's working out really well in my favor. And I think it looks like BiggerPockets is gonna be doing more events which I am deep in my wheelhouse. And I like shooting events. And so I'm going to weasel my way into a ton more media positions. And I’m really excited.
Mindy:
Well if you do a good job with photography at rookie con and BP con, I bet you can weasel your way in there.
Alex:
Yeah.
Mindy:
Do you know how to use cameras? Do you want to call John?
Alex:
Wait, what?
David:
And we're out.
End:
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Episode 171
Mindy Jensen
Join your host David Pere and Alex Felice in this episode with guest Mindy Jensen as shares her experience in real Estae, military, and networking. She is also going to talk about her website (Bigger Pocket), and also about Forum moderation.
About Mindy
Mindy Jensen is the co-host of the “BiggerPockets Money” podcast and the co-author of “First-Time Home Buyer, The Complete Playbook To Avoiding Rookie Mistakes.” She’s also a licensed real estate agent in Colorado and has been buying and selling homes since 1998. She is passionate about helping buyers make intelligent, informed decisions about their home purchases.
Time Stamps
07:32 – How Mindy got into real estate
21:44 – Mindy talks about her website (Bigger Pocket) forum moderation
32:29 – Networking and cultivating relationship on the internet
57:06 – Time is worth more than anything else (IG & AG)
1:00:28 – Talks about military service
Sponsor:
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Become A War Room Mastermind Group Member:
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Grab your book copy of The No B.S. Guide to Military Life – How to Build Wealth, Get Promoted, and Achieve Greatness, Book by David Pere:
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From Zero to One: Real Estate Investing for Beginners:
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My name is David Pere, I am an active duty Marine, and have realized that service members and the working class use the phrase “I don’t get paid enough” entirely too often. The reality is that most often our financial situation is self-inflicted. After having success with real estate investing, I started From Military to Millionaire to teach personal finance and real estate investing to service members and the working class. As a result, I have helped many of my readers increase their savings gap, and increase their chances of achieving financial freedom! – Click here to SUBSCRIBE: https://bit.ly/2Q3EvfE to the channel for more awesome videos!
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