00:00 - 05:00

Intro:

Welcome to the military millionaire podcast where we teach service members, veterans and their families how to build wealth through personal finance, entrepreneurship and real estate investing.

I'm your host, David Pere. And together with my co host, Alex felice, we're here to be your no BS guys along the most important mission, you'll ever embark on, your finances.

Roger, Vick, One, Oscar, Mic.

Sponsor:

Hey guys, before we dig into today's episode, I want to talk to you briefly about the website carrot or investorcarrot.com, which is a website that generates other websites for you. So you can sign up for this, you generate a website, and they create high SEO quality websites for you.

Now, yeah, they charge a little bit of fee per month. But what they also do as they produce content, like blog posts for you, and other stuff, they help you with web design, they help you with ranking on SEO, they help put out articles with you, and they help get you to rank in Google.

So if you're looking to generate leads where somebody can find you when they type in, sell my house fast. Carrot does an incredible job. And I know a lot of wholesalers who do very, very good work, and they all love this website. So I'm not going to do it justice. If I try to talk to you about it in super detail. I'm fairly new to it. I love it. Love it, but I'm fairly new to it. But if you click the link, that'll be in the description, you'll get a link to a free they've got like a free webinar, a free demo, whatever. You can check it out if you like it cool, if not whatever. But this is the sponsor for today's episode is carrot which I am a big fan of, and have a great day we're commencing now.

David:

What's up military millionaires. I am your host, David Pere. And I'm here with my co host, Alex Felice. And but one and only Paul Thompson, who I told I was going to introduce as a really smart investor. And then he wanted me to introduce him as a brilliant investor.

So now, I can't do either. No, just kidding. So Paul's actually, in all reality has always been a very smart investor. Every time I've talked to him, I learned something. And I really appreciate the times we've got to talk that I've gotten into Facebook lives. And the other cool thing is that he walked away from his job like a year and a half ago and hasn't had to go back. So he obviously knows a thing or two about real estate, and investing and life. And so this would be a lot of fun. He hails from my hometown of Little Rock, Arkansas.

So Paul, welcome to the show.

Paul:

Thanks for having me. I'm confident we're gonna have a lot of fun.

David:

We will indeed. And why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? How did you get started in real estate and kind of a little bit of Paul's story?

Paul:

Well, I got involved in real estate as a way to run away from my day job that I wanted to get away from as quickly as possible.

I discovered that real estate was my path out of having to work a day job. A nine to five job would you want to call it and it was just a way for me to change the course of my life where I was not having to depend on somebody else.

Fundamentally, I want to control it took me a while to figure out that's actually what I wanted. But I've I've I'm completely unemployable. Now I would make a terrible employee and I wanted to be in control of my own destiny and it's not perfect it's not easy and it's not like I just you know, you know sip tea all day and you know and lounge by the banana hammock or whatever.

That's not what I wanted to say. So don't don't put that in their lounge by the poolside.

Alex:

Definitely not definitely not editing that out.

Highlight it, In fact,

Paul:

Lounge in a hammock. drinking my dice. That's what I was going for, something like that..

Alex:

Looking at dudes, but.

Paul:

It's finally come out.

Alex:

Where you're hanging out all your free time, bro?

Alright.

Paul:

Today, I've been working out a lot lately. And it's...

Alex:

Alright then, this guy...

Paul:

No way I can salvage that. Just once it came out is like, oh my gosh.

Alex:

Look, Paul, we don't want to be nervous too much. It's a fun show. We want you to relax,
you know.

Paul:

So funny.

Alex:

So I resonate with that story. I think a lot of people resonate with that story, um, real estate. When did you start? Because I'm curious how that timeline lined up.

Paul:

Let's see this. 2020 So I started investing in 2015. And I left my job in 2017 I believe. So I've been doing it full time since.

05:00 - 10:00

Alex:

Okay, so I think that's that your trajectory has been way better than mine because as David alluded to, and you've alluded to, you're far smarter than me.

But if you started in 2014-15, or, you know, if you're lucky, maybe a little bit earlier, is a really really good time to get in and get distressed priced homes and make that possible not to say it's not possible now, but the opportunity was ample. And I identify with that story.

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

I'm curious now, if you if you had to start over viewer like, look, I hate my job. I just found out about real estate. It's clearly not as lucrative single family rentals are clearly not as lucrative today, as they were telling them 15 would you still do it the same way? Would you still go towards rental real estate?

Paul:

Yeah, for lack of any better idea, Real Estate's a good option. If you have a business idea, and you know how to earn income by starting a side hustle, that's, that's brilliant, go off and do that.

I just didn't have any original ideas. I had no products I wanted to sell, I had no ideas. I just knew I wanted to do something else. And the one thing about real estate that as it turns out, we try and you know, talk about how clever we are about the stuff. But real estate really is quite easy.

I mean, the fundamentals of it actually are way easier than the kind of business that you're going to do. And, uh, yeah, I would consider real estate as a way of getting out. The one thing that I would have changed and adapted or adopted earlier, is being a real estate entrepreneur versus a real estate, a classic buy and hold real estate investor, if you need income quickly? Cash flow, cash flowing real estate is a slow slog, it takes a while to build up enough rentals, especially through leveraged enough to replace your day job that it takes a lot of property. And it took me a little longer to realize that and I wish I didn't know that. I don't know. I wish I'd known. Yeah.

Alex:

So David's mic is muted. Apparently he doesn't know. So I'm gonna ask another question.

So I kind of went through something similar. I went through a similar trajectory where I started, I said, look, I just need to quit my job. So I didn't want to build myself something that I had to do five years ago. Oh, I don't want to do this. I got to go find another side hustle. So it's tried and true. And it is a slow game. But I figured well, I'll take low risk and play the long game.

And then what I realized is very much like you said, it's like Dude, real estate is easy. I say that all the time infuriates people. I'm like, it's not it's not any idiot can do it. I'm proof. That's my, that's my little catchphrase.

But now and I'm, I want to delve into this you so I'd rather I would have transitioned to being a real estate entrepreneur sooner. I'm very slightly making that transition. Now. I'm transitioning to other things in my life that are kind of real estate adjacent.

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

But I am starting to do more. I'm looking more towards syndication.

Paul:

Sure.

Alex:

Which is a little bit entrepreneurial, I think a little bit more.

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

Um, but I wouldn't have been able to do that when I started. When I started. It was like, dude, I just need to get the risk I need to get my freedom. Now that I bought my freedom, I can go try something a little bit harder. Is that kind of how you feel you're shaking your head?

Paul:

Yes, you want to get out of that job as fast as possible. I think before becoming a wage earner is really a modern version of wage slavery. And it traps you, it keeps you from thinking for yourself. You are completely beholden to a boss and an employer and what their criteria are. And you're capped at what you can do unless you really work hard, and you just happen to work your way up the ladder and become happy to see in front of your name. You're not gonna make a life changing meaningful amount of money, you can live a decent lifestyle. There's no shame in it. I mean, it's honest work. But you're not going to, like, you know, you're not going to be able to get a few money. I mean, that just takes a long time to swim

Alex?

When they could be making them money.

Paul:

Exactly.

Right.

Alex:

Yeah.

David either.

So, uh, two things to go with your long because I'm a big Nassim Taleb fan. Everybody knows that. If you don't know it yet, it probably feels timeless in this show.

He says the three most harmful or three most harmful addictions in the world. Heroin, carbohydrates, and a W2 salary.

Paul:

Hmm.

Alex:

And that, uh, and that kind of goes along with what you're saying. I feel it right now that I'm free. Now I don't have to work. It's like, well, the money is actually harder for me. The money doesn't come as easy, but I can never go back.

Paul:

Yeah, it's and I would rather work twice as hard and get half of pay for myself and be able to have the flexibility to take my kids to school and bring pick up my kids from school on or take a nap when I'm really tired and not have to ask permission and one of the big stories that that really clinched it for me when I was in the working world was when I had I was on a beach vacation with during the summer, and I was trying to are getting ready to go and leaving my kids were nagging me and say, hey, can't we just stay longer.

10:00 - 15:00

Paul:

And the reality of it was, is that my wife was a stay at home mom, and both my kids were on a summer break. But I had to go back to work. I had the money to stay longer, but there was, it was never an option. You know, I never took more than a 10 day vacation in my entire life until after I was out of school. I'm sorry, out of work.

So this idea of just spending five days to get two days back, I mean, it's just a relationship that you're just never going to get out of unless you figure out a way to not work.

Alex:

Yeah, so I don't know if you probably don't follow my story that close. But we're Facebook friends. Um, I quit in November, I quit my job. And the hope was, or the idea was there'll be mostly temporary. And I said, well, I have enough to scrape by like you say, cashflow rentals, I got eight of them plus my little 24 unit. It's not enough. It's enough when it ain't enough. I also have a VA disability.

It's enough, but it ain't like I live in large. But that's okay. Like you say freedom is worth more than whatever junk I was going to spend that money on with cameras. Goodness gracious.

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

And so I started flipping homes, what I realized was the first thing in your mouth first thing on this bucket is like, yo, I'm unemployable now, and I feel that I'm like, do whatever I figure out what I got to do, I'll have to do it. Because it's like going and working for somebody else. Now again, I mean, I'm just gonna, I can just picture it in a thing. Like, yeah, I got an attitude from day one.

Paul:

Yeah. And it'd be really hard to suck it back up and go back.

I mean, if that were the only option, I'm not too good for it, I would go back and make it work. But there's just so many other ways to, to make a go of it. And when you're out working for yourself, you think about the world completely differently. And your upside is so much bigger. And there, you may not be making enough money, that art to replace the income that you were making me just been no, it's not even a year yet. I mean, you're still figuring stuff out. I mean, I'm three years into it, I'm still taking photos, so I'm still figuring stuff out. But at some point, you're gonna hit a threshold, you're like, okay, this is what's working for me, this is what works for my personality, and the current market cycle. And now I'm gonna hit it, I'm gonna hit a hard, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna create an exit level event for my life where I have 10-$15 million. And I don't have to go back.

I mean, that's, that's a very viable real opportunity. When you are starting up a little real estate entrepreneurial type business.

Alex:

Yeah.

David:

Can you guys hear me now?

Alex:

Hey, Dave.

David:

Gosh, I'm talking on my webcam.

Alex:

Hey, we're in the middle of it. We're in the middle of the podcast. Okay don't interrupt.

David:

So the question I was going to ask, which was going to lead in all this was if you could just define the difference between a real estate investor entrepreneur and the buy and hold investor, because I don't know that everybody knows what we're talking about.

Paul:

So what's so my philosophy is that you basically have three fundamental choices when it comes to investments, you can buy something that you have no control over, which is the stock market, or exchanges or currencies, or reads, or you can invest in real estate yourself, which has a little bit aspect of both, or on the other, the other side of the continuum, you can invest in a business or you can start a business and you are the business owner.

One is control and a lot of volatility. The other end is less control, but less volatility, and your lower returns as well. The likelihood of lower returns in real estate is an interesting mix of kind of sitting on both sides, you can make it a complete investment, or you can make it a complete business. And even just buying a rental property has aspects of both, you can kind of control the outcome a little bit, you are effectively in charge of how you operate that little business, but it's still fundamentally an investment, you're buying an asset.

And so when it comes to being a real estate entrepreneur versus being a classic real estate investor, or you're just buying for cash flow or potential appreciation, when you're being an entrepreneur, you're thinking about how you can be a transactor of properties. It could be short term, like flipping, it could be wholesaling. Or it could be an indicator, where you get into very large properties, and then you take investors in and they invest in your project.

And so this is the continuum, and there's probably dozens of different permutations of that of real estate that's why it's I like it because there's so many ways you can kind of dabble with that fundamental asset class.

David:

If you guys thought that we were joking about Paul being smart. He used the word permutations, which I cannot define. So you're all welcome.

Alex:

Dave’s smart by what the jarhead does by the word that the jarhead doesn’t know.

15:00 - 20:00

Paul:

There's too many syllables in. There's a big got it confused.

David:

Yay. Good. I think that's a good answer. I think that it is definitely a distinct difference. And one of the reasons that I like real estate, so I appreciate all the conversation you guys had without me while I was trying to figure out why my mic stopped working 10 minutes and did a podcast.

Alex:

It was fantastic, actually.

David:

Yeah, I should just do that more often.

Alex:

I flipped home, I put two homes in here, actually, the second one's about to go on the market. Um, I made more than I made in my day job last year.

Paul:

With, really?

Alex:

I feel like, um, you know, it's a little bit different, because, uh, you know, taxes and stuff aren't the same gross to net, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, maybe I'll just put a third house. How about that?

Paul:

Sure.

And that's flippin ', too, you know, it's very common to flip two houses and not make money when you first get started. Because there's a lot you don't know when you get into flipping houses.
Alex:

Well, but to be fair, you know, I've been doing the single family rehab for a long time.

Paul:

That’s true.

Alex:

So like, that's part of why I did, I was like, dude, my contract, my rehab side and my exit side, no problem.

So that's why I did like the risk is low. Cos I knew that the transaction costs would be both set and low risk.

Paul:

Yep. And once you have your contract are seen, it sounds like you already had your team in place, once you have your team in place it then it becomes a whole different conversation, I now have a business partner, a project manager, a contractor, and we walk through a house and we know down to, you know, 99% accuracy, the cost and the timeline. And we can go through a house and do a $40,000 rehab on a single family house, three bedroom, two bath, four bedroom, two bath, and we can get it done in three weeks. And it's just, it's, it's like it's like a layup to us. And by the way, I'm not doing any of the work, the contract, you're doing all the work. And then the contractor, when you get that professional in the priority that I've learned that it takes a while people to figure out is people try and go for the cheap contractors. Big mistake, you want to get the professional who's been doing it for a while. And your order of priority is that you want quality, speed, and then price.

If you try and beat them up on price, they're gonna go elsewhere. You want to go in with the numbers, right? And know that they're gonna get it done quickly. And well the first time.

Alex:

Can I expand on that a little because I agree wholeheartedly. People go in and price and they think, well, they only think about price. And they think that the contract is supposed to be happy to just get paid. And it's like a good contractor can choose who he wants to work with.

So you want to think about I always think in terms of I think about everything in terms of relationships. And so it's like, dude, if I beat this contractor on price, and he's not happy, how good work is he going to do for jobs, he doesn't want to do.

Paul:

Right.

Alex:

He has to be happy. And then you have to say, Well, if you know, you're gonna be happy to do this, when you're gonna be happy to do the next one. We're gonna do another one together.

And so yeah, I had a guy today who, a guy that I referred to my contractor who's about to get fired, as a client is too much. He's doing exactly what you said, it's like, dude, you're beating everybody up over price. And then and then you're giving us a hard time on top of it. It's like, I'm not gonna, I don't, the contractor doesn't work for you. Gentlemen, he works for himself. And so it's like, you need to make him your partner. That's the best thing. That's the best shot you got. I assume you agree to that. So.

Paul:

I couldn't have said it better. Actually, absolutely. Because what they said the thing contractors have trouble with is keeping busy and keeping their crews busy, most importantly, is they want their crews constantly having the next job lined up. And if you can keep feeding them good jobs, then sometimes they'll take a little bit lower cut on the next job just to keep their guys busy.

And but whatever, once a while you get these big waves that come through, okay, this is the big one. And we're all gonna make money on this. How are you all gonna make money on this, and you get together and you figure out the plan. And so I'm not telling my contractor what we're doing, when I go into a house, we walk through a house, and we're thinking about what could be done, and he has so much more insight into what can be done in the house than I ever will. And he collaborates with us on the plan. And he sees things and tells us oh, well, you can do a little upgrade there. And you'll get a much better product. But it won't cost you that much more and he just knows it in a way that I never will.

David:

Yeah, absolutely. Rely on professionals.

And yeah, I never understood why. Why would people want to, I mean, obviously you want to get a price but you know, haggle per se with people on your team. Like you should be okay with like, you want a good price, but I would like to work harder on negotiating with the seller, and then you can afford to give the contractor a decent amount like yeah, because that's the person that will make you more money.

A good contractor, it's like anything in life, right? Like a good coach is worth what you pay them.

20:00 - 25:00

Paul:

That’s right.

Well, it's interesting you guys mentioned taxes, and I flip houses as a way to monetize access to deals that I get, I don't wake up in the morning or think about it, let me figure out how I can flip more houses. That is kind of a capital intensive process. And it's not the best use of your capital, I don't think, but sometimes you just keep coming across deals.

I mean, this is just so juicy. It's just so nice to do. And you get good at it. And it's not that hard. But it definitely Jacks up your tax basis. And I'm getting the point to where I'm having to, like am I'm moving to Puerto Rico or something so I'm not gonna pay as much in taxes are like, you know, what, what am I strategies to minimize taxes and so that's why I do a lot more of the IRA and solo 401k type investing now because I'm trying to maximize my my taxable income. And really, philosophically I want to pay as little in taxes as legally possible.

Alex:

Can I shift gears real quick?

You're a big internet branding guy.

Paul:

A Tribe? I must say, I'm good at it.

Alex:

You know what? I could have said it better myself. So like, and which leads me to whose shirt are you wearing?

Paul:

Ha, I am aware of wearing a combination of afford anything and choose if I some free shirt I got at fincon

Alex:

I was gonna say that's not your brand, Paul.

Paul:

Yeah, I'm not doing a very good job of touting my home, my....

Alex:

Me? I'm always wearing my brand.

Paul:

Yeah.

David:

Even when my mic breaks, you can still see my brand.

Paul:

There you go.

Alex:

Um, so speaking of fin con, I don't know, well, conferences are all canceled right now. So this is probably a lousy way. But for anybody, for our listeners who may or may not be on the fence about conferences. You know, especially if you're into real estate, fin con might not come across somebody's radar.

Paul:

No.

Alex:

But yet, that's where the three of us met.

Paul:

Hmmm. That's right.

Alex:

Was that true?

David:

I just heard Paul in bigger pockets. And I was like, that guy's a little rock.

Paul:

Small world sometimes.

Yeah, well, I'm just a really big believer in getting I said, I am naturally a very shy, reserved guy, I am not the life of the party. I don't meet people naturally easily. But I really like conferences, because when you go to a conference, you are naturally self selecting with other people who are like you. And that conference has some of the most interesting people in the world.

And I find that in that situation that dynamic is just easier and more natural for me to get to know people, because most people don't know anybody. They're already in this kind of kind of meant to kind of mix and mingle. And I find that probably, I can't, I can't quantify exactly, but way over 80% of my friends, like true friends I have now are not people I knew from where I live or where my work is from. It's from the industry and the conferences that I've gone to.

David:

Alright, now I'm gonna just hijack that real quick, Mr. Banana hammock and just point out that while you're saying, you're not the party goer, you and I got kicked out of a hotel room at fin con this year.

Paul:

Yeah.

David:

And Alex wasn't even invited. So I just want to throw out there that we are totally party animals, despite the fact that the reason Alex wasn't invited is because he was making his own party in the lobby.

But anyway, I'm gonna hijack this conversation back because the whole reason I invited you on the show was to talk about self directed IRAs.

Paul:

Okay.

David:

And you, you, you leaned into it, and then Alex was like, we're gonna go this way now. So I'm gonna pull it back towards that. Because I'm curious how you are able to use those to limit your tax burden. And then also, like some of the strategies if we can touch on some of the strategies you use for self directed IRAs, because I know you do some really creative stuff.

Paul:

Yeah, and if people don't already know, you can invest in a variety of things within your IRA or 401k. If it's a or tsp, if you are in a company sponsored 401k, you have a very limited control. But once you become self employed, you can do a solo 401k because you're a solo entrepreneur. That's what I am. And that's what I have. And so I have a couple different buckets of types of tax advantaged accounts, HSA, IRAs, solo 401k. And the law states that I can invest those with whatever I want, but I have to go through a custodian for IRAs, an HSA and a custodian is fidelity or Schwab or Vanguard. There's also these little boutique companies that offer true self directed meaning you can invest in alternative things other than just mutual funds and index funds, stocks and whatnot.

So you can actually buy promissory notes, you can create promissory notes, you can buy real estate, you can buy all kinds of things inside of your IRA. And since I'm a real estate investor, it's just kind of natural for me to use these tax advantaged accounts in order to buy certain types of or invest in certain types of investments inside my IRA.

25:00 - 30:00

Paul:

And the reason I do it is because they're tax advantaged. And I specifically like Roth IRAs, because they're post tax. So any gains I get inside of there, half are not taxed if you file a tax return, I love those deals that I'm doing inside of an IRA, and there's no tax return, because it's tax free.

However, the intent of an IRA is not to run a business inside of an IRA. So it's not intended to do flipping or wholesaling is intended to buy properties. So now when I come across a deal, you know, I can really get this deal cheap. It's, you know, I don't know it rents for $700, and needs $10,000 worth of work, and I can get it for $30,000 total, I'll buy that within my IRA all cash and just buy it with my IRA. And I now have these properties out there that are getting a very respectable return, it's easy for me to manage without me being in the middle of everything. And there's a really specific rule that I can't go over swinging the hammer on these types of deals. But I can cut basically from arm's length, I can manage a property or I can direct somebody to do rehab costs, or rehab work on it.

And so the advantage behind all that is, I can get so creative with how to do things. And so one of the things I'm doing now is I'm buying really low end properties, I'm using somebody else's IRA to take title.

So let's say Alex has an IRA that has 30 grand in it. And I have an IRA that has, I don't know, $500, like I'm tapped out, I only have $500 left in the IRA, I said, hey, Alex, would you be interested in a 10% return on your money, if I do all the work? Like, a lot of people go for that. So they put $30,000 into this deal. They buy and take title to a property in an area that I understand, and I know, and then I tack in another $500. And we split all the outcome on the back end. But all the money that we make, I always give him 10% of his money. But remember, we're buying all cash and I'm not borrowing anything.

So my return might be 10-20%. And I'm paying him 10%. And I'm keeping the rest. And that's going back into my little IRA, and he's getting 10% on his money. So I'm and the whole point of all that is that he is buying it with his IRA. So when he turns around and sells it someday in the future, or maybe two days later, there's no tax. So what I do is I turn around, I sell that property, I help him basically show him how to sell that property to an owner occupant, owner financing, and we get $5,000 down, keep the property and as his condition, let them put the $10,000 of work into it. And they pay us $100 a month in payments back to us. And it turned into a note.

So all I'm doing is I'm manufacturing a note together. But one of the reasons I like doing it that way is because I'm a dealer, if I'm doing that outside of an IRA, if I'm doing that inside of an IRA, it's an investment.

David:

So that's why we say you're smart.

Alex:

That's slick.

I gotta give you credit, obviously. I know you could invest in IRA's. I didn't ever think to do the second part where you then turn around and sell you have a note with that guy.

Paul:

Yep. Yep.

Alex:

And then you said you're a broker if you're if you're selling security, but if you're, if it's inside an IRA...

Paul:

I have, well, I have money in it. Right? I have $500 in it. So I'm not brokering money. I'm partnering with you on it.

Alex:

Right. T

That's very interesting. You're a smart fella. You're a smart fella. I'm surprised you're friends with David.

I did my first IRA deal. This year, I borrowed my partner's IRA. And it was easy, slick. I had known it was possible. I obviously knew you. I knew you did it. And I knew I've been in banking for a long time. So I knew the gist but I signed a, I signed a document, maybe two?

Paul:

Promissory note, mortgage, probably.

Alex:

Probably a promissory note. And then I signed something from his custodian. And then he wired me.

Paul:

Yeah. So the way that works is he has an IRA and they have some custodian, there's a lot of big ones equity quest is tons of advanta. And what they do is you have to give them direction of investment, you have to basically tell a custodian, oh, hey, this is my account number, I want you to wire $30,000 over here, and they review all these documents. And so you have to give them very specific instructions on what to do.

And the first time you do it is a little bit confusing. You don't really know what to do. But you know, it's like anything like any time you deal with an institution, they have these papers, this paperwork, these rules, you figure out how to do it, you kind of figure out how to go, how to do it repeatedly and fast. And then you start doing transactions. And what you did is you were your hard money lender and effectively. And so he lent you, you know, 50-$100,000 to do acquisition or rehab of the property. And then he probably did. Did you pay him interest along the way or pay him on the back end?

Alex:

back end.

Paul:

Yeah. So.

Alex:

I don't want them, it's a flip. I don't want the monkey on my back.

30:00 - 35:00

Paul:

Sure. And this is somebody you trusted and he trusted us so he was cool with doing that.

What I typically do is I often don't know the person really well, like we aren't business partners or just like somebody that just found me. Hey, I'm interested to know what you're doing. Can you show me? I'll pay, I'll make them payments, because I want them to know that I still have the money and I'm still doing something. And when they get payments that makes them feel real comfortable. Typically, once we do that a few times they get it. Okay, well, here's 50 hundred thousand dollars for this investment. When it's done, then you can pay me back the interest in the back end.

David:

Yeah, that's definitely another perk test IRA’s

Alex:

I uh, yeah, it did. It definitely opened my eyes.

It opened my acceptance to doing more deals like that. I think now my, you know, a mother as an as, she's nice about investing in my mother. I love her to pieces. She's amazing at investing, but she's frugal and frugal for I don't wanna say Algis for her forever. Right.

And so she's got a big, nice little nest egg. And I'm like, dude, you should give me some of that for my next apartment building. That kind of thing. So now it's opened me up to look into that as viable it was very easy.

Paul:

Is it in her IRA? Does she have money in an IRA or is it just cash?

Sponsor:

Today's show is brought to you by audible.

Audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook with a 30 day trial membership. Just go to audibletrial.com/militarytomillionaire and why audible? Audible content includes an unmatched selection of audiobooks, original audio shows, news, comedy, and more. From the leading audio book publishers, broadcasters and entertainers.

I listened to audible every single day on my commute to and from work.
Now to download your free audio book today. Go to audibletrial.com/militarytomillionaire.

Alex:

IRA?

Paul:

Yeah, well, here's the trick, she can't lend it to you. Because...

Alex:

I don’t know ah, I would not be even if my entity would be a third entity that my partner and I own, I would own a portion of that entity and that entity would own the asset.

Paul:

Yep.

Alex:

That should be good, right?

Paul:

So long as you own less than 50% of it, then you gotta be very careful that because basically, there are these arm's length transactions, and you can't basically indirectly benefit yourself personally. And, and you have to be careful, like you can lend to your brother and sister, or your cousins, but not to your lineal or linear ascendant or dissonance.

Alex:

Yeah, I think the way it's gonna work is like the LLC, the IRA only owns this entity and only owns some portion of the building. And then I'll own some portion of that.

Paul:

Just gotta be really careful. And anytime you do that, you can call up whoever is the custodian of that self directed, and you say, here's what I'm going to do. Does this work? Am I triggering any of these prohibited transactions? And they will tell you exactly yes or no. And it's just you've got to know the rules. And this is self directed for a reason you're kind of out there on your own. So if you do get caught in an IRA, you can blow up an IRA’s value overnight, so be super careful with them.

Alex:

Talking about that. Do you know anybody that has gotten in trouble with this?

Paul:

Yes, yes. I know, people have gotten audited. And they have very intentionally walked the thick gray line, and done things that are askew, and they've lost, like over hundreds of thousands of dollars of their IRA, because they were caught doing that.

Alex:

What's the punishment? How does that look? Do you know?

Paul:

Yeah, so So it depends on the kind of account for an IRA they treat that transaction or actually for they treat that as though you liquidated the account, and they you pay taxes and you pay penalties and back taxes, so they can go back and audit you like three to five years later, and then get you for all the taxes you didn't pay.

So it can be it can destroy an entire IRA.

Alex:

Yeah, follow the rules, boys.

Paul:

Know the rules and follow them. Exactly.

David:

Question for you, if I so I would assume that you probably rolled when you had some IRA or 401k w two that you rolled in when you first started? If you were Nick, the new guy, right? And you were looking, okay, well, let's just say let's just say that I don't have money in my tsp, which, which I do. But yeah, if I had no money today, there's a $6,000 cap on what you can put in or whatever.

Paul:

Can contribute to an IRA for this year? Yeah.

David:

Does that change at all with solo? Or is there any other or is the best way to go build that just as, okay, cool.

Paul:

What’s a solo 401k, it's any kind of rules that apply to the 401k and tsp, or 403b, basically, it's all the same caps, you can only contribute so much like this year is like 19,500. And then your employer can match a certain amount.

Now, the government or our private company corporation, they'll give you like dollar for dollar for the first 3% if it's your own company, and you're and you're the planet administrator, and you're their own trustee, you can decide however much you want to so you can put $19,000 into it and you can match it for $19,000 if you have enough income to justify.

35:00 - 40:00

David:

That's exciting, because I have the TSP and what I was thinking was I thought about rolling it. And then I also thought about just just leaving it because it's always been like a super emergency fund that's got all these great things.

And so this was so I was like man, should I donate 6000 into a self directed IRA in the next three months just to knock it out this year. But it probably makes sense for me to just wait another six, seven months to live as solo, and I can just do everything in the one account. And anyway...

Paul:

So there's just a couple of nuances to that that you want to be aware of, I'm a big fan of the IRA, because it's all post tax.

So if you have the capital, and you're sitting on cash, you're like, I wonder what I'm gonna do with it, put it into an IRA, it just, it's just super smart to do. Or if you have access to an HSA put it in there first.

Alex:

You said, Ira, you mean Roth? Roth is post tax, right?

Paul:

I said Roth IRA, right? Exactly. I'm not sure what I said was what I meant a Roth IRA is post tax.

So what you want to do is put your money into there, just as if you have the capital, put it in there, that's the kind of the best way because it's always tax advantaged for all the gains forever.

HSA are even better, they're triple tax advantaged, and, and if you have access to one put money in there first, but what you're talking about is saving some money and then contributing to your 401k later, you got to remember that in order to get a solo 401k, you have to have earned income somehow with your business. And then I think you put this business you're doing now you probably do.

But you have to, but you can't contribute to your solo 401k and contribute to your tsp. Well, you can do it both times, but the limit still stayed the same. You can't double dip.

So you're 19,500 days, it's a limit across all of your plans.

David:

So I guess, well, that works. Yeah, cuz I'm going to maximize tsp this year, so I could, so I'll probably just wait till next year, set up a solo 401k. And sure, I'll be done with the TSP and whatever. But that's, that's exciting.

So what you're telling me is that you would not recommend the advice of liquidating your tsp and going all in on real estate.

Paul:

You know…

Alex:

I see that, that’s becoming a trend.

Paul:

I think it has been a trend for a while, if you know what you're doing with real estate, there are inherent tax advantages to real estate and business ownership, potentially over and above the tax advantages you're getting from these retirement accounts.

I think there's a viable argument for doing that entirely, but you use every year employment, and you have your tsp or your 401k or 403b. And it's just sitting out there, especially right now with the care act, if you were actually hit with that this year, and you had a reason to say you're affected by it. You can take out $100,000 right now, and not pay the taxes on it except for over the next three years. And there's no early contribution fee. Or you can just say, you know what? I think you're safe the way to go. And you can completely take the whole thing out no matter however much you have in there, and just go all in in real estate or some sort of business.

Alex:

The S and P earned 25% last year. Now you can tell me that there's flaws in investing into the market and whatnot and there is, but the average return over the last 50 years, and s&p has been 10%.

I mean, it's no laughing matter that is not screwing around, that's good returns. Now, it's not controllable. I'm not saying I just want to make the case for diversity, right? David, David doesn't always earn 10% on his real estate, the stock market, the stock market's doing good, you're gonna trade something, you're gonna pay a premium to get that capital, and then you're gonna put into something else that you're not the barrier.

Now, again, we all know, stock market. You know, it's not always up. We know that for certain. But you know, in the last, you know, since 2008, right, 2008, it was down like 40%, 2009 until 2016, where 16 was flat, right thousand and nine 2015, it was up double digits just about every year.

And then 17-18 and 19, it was up significantly. So I'm not a big stock investor by any means. And I'm not making a case for that. I'm just saying like that money sitting there earning, you have to do nothing, and it is cranking off returns. And for you to take that money out and put a premium, pay a premium on it to get cap access to it. And then to go do something. I don't know how much is in there. But it's like, to me, it just seems like we'll just go get somebody else's money.

David:

So that's why I plan on leaving my tsp alone, because I'm going to count that 50-60 whatever it is just like, that's my superduper emergency fund were in, in March when everyone freaked out and looked at my tsp and said, I can cover all my rentals for 24-26 months, if they were 100% vacant, so..

Alex:

Yeah, I just wanna make the case for like, well, I just want to argue the opposite side.

David:

Yeah. And I'm glad all your deals have always gone. Well. Yeah. I heard that experience comes from the failures though, so you know, I'll just wait it out.

Alex:

Yeah, the easiest way to invest in real estate is only buying an up, only investing in the up market.

40:00 - 45:00

Paul:

Well, that's funny. You know, most of us, I mean, all three of us on here, we haven't been doing it for that long, we may be all wet and not be as smart as we think we are.

So I think there is something to be said for keeping a significant amount of your capital in something that you can't mess up because you're not messing with it. And I still keep half of my capital that my investable capital in index funds in Vanguard, they're not self directed IRA, I don't look at their balance I have I invest in the total stock market index fund, and I didn't let it ride.

I don't look at it. I don't consider it. I just, I just put money in there. $6,000 a year. And I've been doing that since I was 20. And I've no idea what I'm gonna do with it. Well, someday. I mean, if it may be, I might be a multimillionaire, or I might have nothing there. I don't know.

David:

I agree. Because if that money was in my bank account, it would get spent.

Paul:

You would find a way to spend it.

David:

There would be a deal and it would get executed on it. Not to say that's necessarily a bad thing. But the only way for me to guarantee that I always have at least a somewhat substantial chunk, depending on the market, right? Like super emergency funds. If I screw everything else up. It's just not touching, which means that I am now able to take on larger risks with my play money.

Paul:

I totally agree. Because it feels like playing money. What's interesting is the stock market over the last five years has done exceptionally well. And what's crazy is even with that growth, I don't know if it's 25% or what, but let's just call it from 5%, over those over those five years, I have invested in create, I've improved my net worth by a factor of four or five times over and above that via real estate because I'm able to use leverage.

Alex:

Yeah, but how much of that is equity?

Paul:

It's mostly equity.

Alex:

Right, So you know, I...

Paul:

That's all. That's all. When you're investing in the stock market, that's all it is. Anyway, right?

Alex:

Nah, but they're very, they're very different in liquidity.

Paul:

Yeah, they are. They're liquid equity is a whole different conversation. I agree.

Alex:

Right.

So I just, again, playing devil's advocate for the sake of it, you know, your balance sheet may have gone up forex. But if you would actually liquidate that and get that capital, you then also lose the cash flow premium that comes from a lot of those.

Paul:

Yeah, you basically kill off your golden goose, and then you it's not getting any more golden eggs. Right?

Alex:

Yeah. So I just want to make sure that I make the case for the stock market a little bit. Again, I'm not primarily a stock market investor by any means. But I do think in the real estate circles, it gets..

Paul:

A bad wrap, which I'm with you. I am not, I'm not dogmatic about any of those three choices. I mentioned that first. I mean, there is value in pros and cons to all three. And you got to find one that works for your personality, because some people are just going to be employees, okay, you know, be a happy employee and invest in the stock market, save and invest. And you'll, and you'll probably end up a millionaire if you keep doing it.

Now, it will take you longer, it'll take you 17 years at a 50-50% savings rate. Okay?

Alex:

And you might be, you might be effin miserable along the way.

Paul:

Yeah, you might be or you don't say this effectively, you know, you slow down, you only do it at a 30% savings rate and you're slightly less miserable. You know, that's okay.

Alex:

Yeah. Well, I mean, just working for somebody else, you know, it's like, a lot of life to give up.

Paul:

Well, that goes back to your personality, like, like, we all have a bent towards, we've kind of had the scales removed from our eyes, you're like, okay, what were we thinking? I think all of our stories kind of fall in the same category. Not everybody fits that mode.

Alex:

David Sullivan employee.

Paul:

Yeah. But he's working his way out. Like he's actively working his way out.

David:

I can't break my contract. Okay. There's a time frame. I'm sorry.

Paul:

Well, you know...

David:

I'm okay with that right now. Because it means I get to see what's gonna happen before I make the final out or realist decision.

Paul:

And with military service there, there's so many more things to consider than when you're a corporate employee.

So you, there are contracts, like, as a corporate employee, I mean, you could be fired tomorrow, you know, or you could stay forever or yeah, or you can decide to quit tomorrow, too. So there's cuts both ways.

David:

So if you, so 2015 to 2018-19, when you walked? Was it?

Paul:

2017 I believe.

David:

Okay, so not a very long time. How did you I mean, that's a very quick trajectory. So I guess my question, maybe the less of a how did you and more of a like, how would you coach someone right now would be like a good strategy, like that's a really substantial amount of time or a short amount of time to turn around.

Paul:

Well, you pretty much have to become some sort of business owner and I what I call a real estate entrepreneur, you gotta go figure out a way to earn money fast, and why and the fundamental thing about real estate and really business ownership is if you're buying businesses is you want or even stock ownership if you want to buy things, buy assets, acquire assets, go shopping on the weekend at the garage sale and get the discounts.
45:00 - 50:00

Paul:

This is what I'm all about is buying assets at discounts, I spend most of my time acquiring assets, figuring out how to buy properties well below what they are currently worth in the current condition. And then sometimes I improve them by improving processes, or adding some rehab to a piece of real estate to force appreciation. But fundamentally, I'm just going to the, you know, back in the day, when the series was around, you would go to the garage, garage sale on the weekend, and you'd find that Craftsman tool that was broken, you take the series and get or get a new one, right? That's those little rules that we're trying to find in the market, and we want to increase.

So all my time and energy and anybody I'm talking to all the time, you should be learning how to go buy properties at discounts. It was amazing about real estate compared to the stock market because it's so much easier to find a property and asset at a market discount because of the inefficiencies of the market compared to the stock market.

When you buy a stock, like do you really know if you're buying it at a discount right now? I mean, do you really understand the dynamics of that business enough to know that?

Ah, I know, I don't

David:

But you can buy a Tesla for a discount last week.

Alex:

I heard Tesla's underpriced.

Paul:

Yeah. I mean.

David:

It's only gonna go up, obviously,

Paul:

Yeah, people spend a lot of time studying businesses in price earnings ratio and reading the balance sheets and reviewing the 10k’s and figuring out, you know, this is a good buy or not. And I've never figured that out enough to say, you know what, I know what I'm buying. I'm not Warren Buffett, I don't read all day. And I don't know exactly what I'm buying at a discount. But it's like, like, Alex was talking about, like, anybody can buy a piece of property and know that with a certain degree of confidence that's way below the market value.

David:

What is your favorite lead magnet?

Paul:

Lead Magnet or lead source?

David:

Lead source, yeah.

Paul:

Okay. Lead source is, well, I would say right now pay per click gives me the highest return for my time and money.

So because the reason you think so. So this is Google Ad Edwards, pay per click, and it takes some learning to figure out how to do that. Or you hire somebody who knows what they're doing, which is what I've done, and you find people and the quality of the lead from that is better than anything else. Because they have gone and searched on the internet. They've seen you, your ad, they've clicked on it, they've called you and say I want to sell my house. And the quality of lead. And the time for closing for me is far superior than any other source.

Now I can put out bandit signs, I can make cold calls, I can put I can go driving for dollars, I can go like rummage up deals. But the person that I'm talking to is inherently like, it's inbound versus outbound. Like I wouldn't find them. The dynamic is completely different. They came and found me.

David:

I like it.

Alex:

I actually talked about inbound marketing a lot. I don't monetize well, I don't monetize almost anything in my life. Like I should. Certainly not like you do.

But um, I for people, I do a lot of marketing for people. And when people find me, you know, if you see my website, right, like by the time they get an email, by the time I'm talking to somebody, it's like, you know what I do. You've seen my style. tolerable, it's like, that's 90% of it right there. And so it was mostly just to walk you by that, but my nature is that I actively try to piss them off.

Paul:

And if they still stick around, and they're, they're gonna like it.

David:

If you listen to Episode 100, you'll hear that I explained that Alex uses Stockholm Syndrome as a means of becoming friends with people. And then yeah,

Alex:

That's how it goes. It's like, Who is this maniac? And then a few months later, it's like, he's nothing bad.

Paul:

Yeah.

David:

Just Alex.

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

But, uh, but I like to get back on track. I like that you say that inbound marketing. By the time they get to you, you're like, Dude, this is a 90% hot lead. We really have to agree on price now.

They're motivated. They actually are not just motivated in their head. They've reached out and taken some action. That's a super mega hot lead.

Paul:

Yeah. And they've answered my call, right.

So I mean, they've done all the things. And then I pre screen people right off. I mean, like, so I mean, I'm not the one doing the calls anymore. But I have people that do it. But we have a script to go through is like, you know, how could you want to sell? If you are looking to sell right now and we get you the price you want, oh, could we close in seven days? Yeah. They say yes. Then you know, they're motivated. Like, how quickly can we get out there with a contract and sign that thing?

Alex:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't have to go get that you don't have to talk them into it. They called you. They called you with the problem to solve.

Paul:

Yeah. And usually they're dripping with motivation.

I mean, they have something going on in their life and they have a problem right now. And time is more important to them than money.

People ask me all the time, like how do you get people to sell you properties like that all the time. Like, it's nothing I'm doing. I just happen to be the guy that is on the phone to be honest. I'm no, I'm not brilliant. I'm just there. Because they need to sell.

David:

Yeah.

50:00 - 55:00

Alex:

Yeah, they were gonna sell to the first person that calls.

Paul:

Sure. And I just happen to be the first one because I put out ads, I'm willing to pay for that.

I’m pretty confident now that I can spend $1 in ads and get $3 back. I mean, it just if you, that's the best the business side of this is I could put marking money out. And with the systems in place I have in my cost basis. I know I'm gonna get about two and a half and $3 back for.

Alex:

Fascinating.

David:

Yeah.

Alex:

Yeah. Deal. Flow is definitely my hardest piece right now, the deal flow.

Paul:

It is the, well in this market, it's the hardest hardest for everybody. Even if you are seasoned, it's tough. And I mean, because it's a competitive market. It's a seller's market everywhere you go. And so but here's my belief is that right now, if you can get good at finding leads and finding deals, think about how good you're going to be when it's easy.

So yes, I think you know, like, like right now is when you should find a way to make it happen. Because if you can now, you will be unstoppable when things change. And I just have a philosophy that there is somebody making money in every market and are in any market all the time in any market cycle, you just pick up someplace in the US that has some amount of population, and somebody has an angle to making money in real estate.

So be that person in your market.

Alex:

The only question is, are the same people in the up market making the money in the down market?

Paul:

No, that's why I'm not technique driven. I'm not a wholesaler and not a flipper. I'm not a buying hold. I just did the market.

Yeah, you just do the market. So I want a tool belt that has things I don't want you to walk around with with a hammer, you know, looking for nails, I want to figure out how to use all the tools. Now I have a niche. My niche is single family. And so that's why I don't do land. And I don't do this. I don't do commercials, I don't do mobile homes. I have a single family. That's my niche. That's why I don't stray from but I have all the tools available to me given the market cycle.

David:

That's what Jay Scott talks about recession proof adjusting strategy.

So you mentioned you outsource the PPC stuff now to someone else, right. But did you start
doing that on your own? Originally?

Paul:

I tried desperately and I was still like a cro Magnon like scratching at it with my clothes.

David:

I was just gonna ask if you have any book recommendations or anything? But..

Paul:

You know, there's a couple of good courses that I've taken that add word nerds. I think it has a really good course. I forget how much it cost. I know a couple people in my mastermind that they actively are using that. And that's when they're doing their own ad campaigns. And that's what they're using.

But I've never taken it. And I just don't have the patience and the determination to to be the guy that's going to know that I would much rather hire that out and run a business where I'm the operator where I'm the owner and not the operator.

David:

Make sense, Absolutely.

Cool. Well, I have a few questions that I asked everybody on the show. Unless you've got something Alex?

Alex:

Well, we have, no I don't.

David:

All right. So we're gonna roll.

If 18 to 19 year olds were to walk up to you asking you for advice on life, real estate, whatever will be like the one thing that you want them to know?

Paul:

Read everything and get your hand on read read read the separation between your success will be what you put in your mind.

Alex:

Paul, can we talk about books we can segue into books real quick?

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

You know my book. I'm a bookaholic.

Paul:

Yeah, you are.

Alex:

What have you been reading?

Paul:

So yeah, right now I am branching out a little bit and I'm reading a whole lot more on being present and being and basically I have enough money I don't need to be a better business owner. So I'm reading a book called awareness by Anthony de Mello. Have you read it?

on my list?

Paul:

It's a good one.

Alex:

But I love that you say that because the more money I make, the less I read about making money.

Paul:

Yeah.

Alex:

And the more I realized that the problem of humanity is actually quite a bit harder than making money. So please..

Paul:

Yeah, I don't read very many books over and over again. I probably read this book four times this year. Like I read it and it like, calms me out.

Alex:

It's going to top my list.

Paul:

Yeah. I was very reluctant to read it. It's a super lightweight read. You can blow through it. And probably a weekend easily. If not, it's not in one sitting even. Just a super chill book of Unfortunately, the guy that wrote it died, I think in the 80s or early 90s. Anthony de Mello.

Alex:

It's uh, yeah, it's on my wish list but I think he has another...

Paul:

He does have some other books. I did not find them as eye opening, or awakening as is this one.

55:00 - 60:00

Alex:

Any others? You have been going on?

Paul:

Let's see. What else would I recommend? This one is I can't believe I haven't read it before but as recently come across my, is back on to the the money one but it's the the millionaire Fastlane It sounds like you're talking about how dumb people are.

It is just I love the way he approaches. He's like, I mean, he's very anti stock market, but he calls it the sidewalk lane. But it's just I like his way. And he just doesn't hold anything back. And I keep thinking the books over. That's a pretty good book. And there's a whole nother section to it. I think, oh, dang, you're really like, you really bring it into this book? I think okay, okay, I'm done. And there's a whole nother section as like, he keeps adding to it. And it's just very thoughtful. I don't agree with everything. But I love the attitude.

Alex:

Interesting. Interesting. Well, I appreciate that little tangent. I love books.

David:

But that feeds right into the next question, which was, if you could name any resource, book course, website, whatever. So we've already named a couple books. But if you got others for real estate or business, for real estate reads.

Paul:

Real estate wise, for someone who's new especially, I really like John Shops, book Building Wealth, one house at a time, don't take the numbers, it'll literally look for the concepts inside there.

He uses round numbers to make it easy to follow. Don't take it literally. But the message is building wealth, one house, not building richness are not in our cash flow that you don't quit your job. That's not the attitude. It's just build, buy assets, acquire assets gradually, one at a time, focus on the one you bought, get it rehabbed, get it rented, get your operations going, going to the next one, and you buy 10 houses is crazy think about this, in your lifetime, the average person listening to this, you don't have to become a real estate Maven, or an Empire Builder to become wealthy.

You can buy 10 houses over the next 10 years. And at the end of the 10 years, you will have accumulated over a million dollars with the value.

David:

Yep, you just don't. Just don't get rid of it.

Paul:

But start early, like, hurry up and buy real estate. Don't Don't buy real estate and wait. You know, don't don't wait to buy real estate, you know, and go out there and get some.

David:

I'm actually in the middle of that book right now. I think John shop?

Paul:

John Shop?

David:

Yeah. Paul:

I mean, it's super easy, lightweight read.

Another one that I would do if you were looking for the mechanics of how to analyze the very basics is the ABC’s of real estate. And it's a, it's a rich dad poor dad book, which I really don't like those typically. But this one's written by Ken McElroy many years ago. And it's philosophy around just the simple basics of how you go and evaluate an apartment complex works for a single family apartment complex. It just breaks it down. And so on this logical approach I mean, it's everything you need to learn about the fundamentals of real estate, and how to evaluate the deal is right there.

David:

Awesome.

Well, Paul, where can people get a hold of you? They'd like to reach out after this.

Paul:

Well, you can go to my website, Paul,DavidThompson.com kind of spelled the way you would expect or the really easy way as you just can text the word investor, to the number 33777. That's kind of my call to action these days, making it easy for everybody to remember the word investor to the number 33777.

Alex:

So fancy.

Paul:

Yeah, I always say I'm about automation, I, I just can't be bothered to work.

David:

I like that, I actually was gonna set up a text like that for veterans live or whatever, that when we did it. I never got around to it. But I liked the idea for sure. And maybe I really should do it as less of an event specific thing and more of a just like in general thing.

Paul:

Yeah. And when you sign up for that, you get a kind of a free guide, a lead magnet, I guess you might call it but it's a free guide on how to make offers that sellers can't resist. It's all about using the three letter offer of intent method, and how to make offers with owner financing.

I think that is still the greatest opportunity in single family markets right now, is going and finding tired landlords and buying a portfolio of properties on owner financing. I just bought six. Well, I just got a 600 contract a couple days ago, using that same method.

David:

Well, sir, thank you very much for joining us this evening. This has been awesome. I'm glad we got to talk about all things.

Well, I don't know if I want to recap everything we talked about but self directed IRAs getting out of the rat race. A little bit about afford anything podcast, Alex's favorite.

End:

Thank you for listening to another episode about my journey From military to millionaire.
If you liked it, be sure to visit Frommilitarytomillionaire.com/podcast to subscribe to future podcasts. While you're there, we'd love for you to rate the show. Give us a review on iTunes.

Now get out there and take action.