Episode 211 | Tim Calise | Unique Approach to Entrepreneurship

David Pere: Oh, and I actually have a co-host who's often here, but he's, uh, well, you'll, you'll hear wandering around in Spain doing a pilgrimage. So.

Tim Calise: Sounds good.

David Pere: What's up, military millionaires? I'm your host, David Paré, and Alex is actually wandering around in Spain right now doing the, I'm going to mess this up, but El Camino de Santiago, I believe, pilgrimage. So, uh, you know, he's living what he preaches about experiences and travel, and that's what we're trying to do. So I'm running the show today and the, uh, episode real quickly is sponsored today by the War Room Mastermind. If you're not familiar with that, that is the community that we host that is for, it's the only thing in the community that we host that is just for service members and veterans. And it's for serious investors who share a common military bond and come together who wants some actual community and accountability. And it's super, super solid. And the only other thing I got to say before we introduce the guest today is, please subscribe to the show and drop a review. Cause I've been terrible. 200 episodes. I think I've asked for that maybe three times up until this last month. So, I'm trying to work on that, but today's guests. So this actually is really cool. So he was introduced to me by my good friend, Nick Lemania. And I've gotten to a point in life where if Nick says, ask me a question or suggest something, I basically say yes, because every time I do, I end up in like another state at a really cool opportunity or talking to someone really cool. And today, our guest is Tim Cleese. And he has a super, super exciting story that I'm actually really excited to dig into because I think I'm gonna learn a lot out of this. And I know you guys are as well. So for starters, He raised over $325 million before the age of 25, which is just incredible. But then he also was a key member of the executive team over at Jim Launch, which for those of you who aren't familiar is with this little known guy named Alex Hermosy that's just blowing up the internet right now. He's also launched multiple service and technical businesses over the last two decades. But now he's helping CEOs and seven figure companies create, avoid costly mistakes. build simplified, sellable businesses in just 24 months. So today, what we're gonna talk about what really is all of that, but also what makes a successful entrepreneur in a sellable company, and we're just gonna have a lot of fun. So Tim, thanks for joining us, man.

Tim Calise: And David, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. That was a kind intro and looking forward to hopefully dropping a few nuggets for your audience. So thank you very much for having me.

David Pere: Yeah, man. So, okay, so I'm going to drop off. We're going to start with something. I'm trying to ask oddball bigger questions before we dig into stories. Cause I think that's fun.

Tim Calise: Cheers.

David Pere: And so today, the question I want to lead off with having been around bunches of businesses that have been built and sold and everything else, right? People love to talk about success and what makes like a successful entrepreneur and all this other stuff, but it's always, it's always tainted with like survivor bias, right? Like that person who made it. So, And the irony, right, is that all the stats say like 90% of businesses fail in the first five to 10 years. So I'm curious if you've noticed any common traits amongst the entrepreneurs who didn't make it. Like if there's something you've been like, aha, that guy's screwed.

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: Or that has stuck out for the non-survivor by a side.

Tim Calise: Yeah, absolutely. It's a great, great question. So I'll answer it in two ways. So one I think is behavioral. And the second is kind of more tactical. I think what from what I've seen, and especially as as we sit right now, you know, entrepreneurship is is like a hot topic, right? It's super sexy. Everyone wants to break away and, and start a business and you know, It's all I have to do is have a webpage and an Instagram account and I'll have Lamborghini's and private jets, right? That, that is kind of where we are right now. Uh, you know, entrepreneurship has become synonymous with kind of the show, right? The reality is I think grit and determination, you know, as you can probably speak to our key in, especially in the early stages, because, you know, I think the, the idea is you kind of. launch a business, there's lots of people that launch an idea, usually ill-formed, and I'll talk about that in a second, but the second they get punched in the face, it's over. And so the folks that I have seen be most successful are the ones who are prepared for the fight. And the punch in the face is just a time to reflect, reorient, and move forward. So you know. most businesses fail in the first 12 months. That usually means you don't have the stamina or the capacity to continue on after that. It's like, I thought this was gonna be easy. It's not as easy as I thought. Competition is there. And so I'm just gonna fold up shop and go back to doing something else, usually with certainty. The

David Pere: Mmm.

Tim Calise: tactical side, as I alluded to earlier, is I think, and I'm, when I'm record saying, stop writing business plans. I think the formation idea is like, I'm going to sit behind a computer and I'm going to write out how the next three to five years is going to go. And all I have to do is go A to Z and I'll have success. That's not how the world works. So adaptability and the ability to take information, create more of a testing methodology has shown to give you, to certainly level the playing field, but also step to deck in your favor. Nothing makes analogies there.

David Pere: Well, that makes me feel a little bit better because I, when I, uh, launched everything I'm dabbling in right now, you know, it was, there was, there was definitely no business from it. Now I'm probably too far the opposite direction, uh, where not only was there not a business plan, but I had no idea this was going to be a business. It was just like a blog and I'm just kind of documenting my journey and then it morphed over time. Uh, but I definitely was just, let's try this. Maybe it'll work. Let's try this. Maybe it'll work. And, and it, And, you know, I was able to stick to the things that did work and drop the other stuff. But that was, I think, kind of more on accident than by design. But I do, I kind of, I remember people telling me like, you know, what's your, what's your vision, what's your goal, what's your plan, what's your, you know, business plan, what's your this, what's your that. And I'm like, dude, I have a full time job. I have a blog and a podcast and I don't know what's going to come with it. I don't have anything like I'm having fun. And, and it has done all right so far. So.

Tim Calise: Absolutely. Well, I'm a, you know, there's a, uh, I was a big believer in a big follower of Tony Shea, who was the co-founder or founder of Zappos. And you know, you take someone who had a perspective on the world is to say, you know, I don't know what we're going to do in business, but our core product is going to be basically a customer service type experience. We are going to be phenomenal at taking care of the customer and that will carry us far. You know, Amazon obviously famously started with books and expanded from there. So, I don't think you necessarily have to have the whole idea mapped out till eternity. And your kind of iterative approach, I think, is really smart because the market is showing you what it wants. And you can kind of continue to morph what you want to do with what the market wants you to do to find success along the way. So but there has to be a core value proposition you're bringing to the marketplace.

David Pere: Absolutely, that makes sense. Well, I like that. I appreciate that answer. So if you'd like we can go and do a little bit more backstory. I'd be curious. So I mean, $325 million by age 25 is quite the, I don't want to say claim because that makes it sound like, you know, you're making it like you did it. How did you get into that world? And then from there, you know, just what made the transition more into the business space? I mean, those are kind of, I guess they're kind of similar, but they're not exactly. you know, hand in hand business models.

Tim Calise: Yeah, no, you're spot on. So I grew up in New York on the North Shore of Long Island, and I escaped without the accent, but I was raised in an environment where my dad was in the finance industry. But I know if you've ever, I think who here hasn't hasn't been in a position where they felt like there was a way things should go. And as a young kid, I felt the the, you know, invisible pressure of, you know, you become a doctor, you become a lawyer, you kind of join a join a bank, something like that. And it just never fit. So I was the kid who would take stuff apart and put it back together again, I was entrepreneurial, I you know, that was my craft. And the idea of sitting in an office was not something that appealed to me. So I went to school for finance, because I was good with numbers. And I found myself interning at a brokerage firm, just to kind of get some cut my teeth, learned some things. And my job was to basically answer the phone. And after about six months, I said, you know, this, I'm setting my life up to basically become a broker. And I wanted to quit even before I started. So I walked into my boss's office and I'm so thankful that I had a mentor at that time who supported what I had to say. And it was, you know, how do I get on the other end of this phone? And he's like, I've been waiting six months for you to walk in here and to ask me that because you don't belong here. And he's like, so what do you want to do? And I said, I want to build a financial firm for myself. I like numbers. I like the stock market. I like trading. You know, but what am I, you know, what the hell am I going to do? And he said, I have a friend of mine who is good at being a portfolio manager, but does not want to run a business. All that puts you two in touch. And if something happens, great. So he and I got together and he said, I'm starting this fund, but I have no interest in doing anything else. Do you wanna come and work with me? And we had about $500,000 under management at that time, which in the grand scheme of things is effectively a rounding error. It's

David Pere: which

Tim Calise: like

David Pere: in the

Tim Calise: a

David Pere: grand

Tim Calise: zero.

David Pere: scheme of things is effectively a mountaineer. Hey.

Tim Calise: So I moved to Birmingham, Alabama of all places. And we rented a co-share office in the back of the CPA's office. And we started this fund. And I crisscrossed the country at 22. I started and picked up little allocations, you know, $100,000 here, $250,000 there. And over the next 36 months or so, took that from about a million to under management to over 300 million. Just by having a great story, and I'm happy to dig into this, I learned the basics of knowing what you're good at, and having a clear value proposition to the marketplace. And I just love... Quite frankly, I was probably just too naive to know any different. I just went out and did it. So it was, if I had actually thought about it, I probably wouldn't have been able to replicate it. But I just kind of put my head down and made it happen.

David Pere: It was insane. Most people at that age would probably have, you know, been dealing with imposter syndrome or have let someone talk them out of, just the idea of raising capital is daunting for a lot of people.

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: And

Tim Calise: Yeah. And

David Pere: I mean,

Tim Calise: it's, it actually came from, it was really interesting because as a kid, you know, we all hear like double down on your strengths or something like that. My strengths as a kid were I was always more comfortable talking to adults than I was to my peers. So I had that, but I also skewed more towards the kind of sensitive side. I was not the gladiator, which when I went, went into that, that investment business, It actually helped me tremendously because the rest of the marketplace was all bravado, big suits, you know, the whole like exactly chest thumping. It was like, you should be on it. You should thank me for taking your money. And so I sought out to flip the script. Mr. And Mrs. Smith, you're going to give us $250,000 of your IRA, your retirement accounts. This is your, you know, the result of your hard work over decades. I want you to know two things. One, you're never going to go to sleep at night wondering if your money is safe. And number two, we're never going to lose your money. And so we were able to raise a lot of that money because just like the restaurant industry, consistency is king. We weren't the highest performing fund in the market, but we were the most consistent. And that is what allowed us to get to where we were. Yeah. And I learned, I saw that it took off almost immediately because it was completely counter to what the narrative at that time was out there.

David Pere: I think that's huge. I mean, and you say that, but that's absolutely, you know, I make fun of syndicators and a lot of those people in the capital raising side of the world for that reason. And I love, you know, I can raise or I have raised a couple million here and there for various projects or my own flips and whatever. I always make fun of the that side of the world because I'm like, man, they just it is so like stuffy. It's it's like you go to like a one of those events and it's just like, oh, here come all the guys in the suits talking about how

Tim Calise: Mm-hmm.

David Pere: much money they've raised. And I laugh because it's like me and like two or three of my buddies in the back just like getting drunk in like t-shirts and, you know, boots, like throwing them back just like, oh, you know, it's like,

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: it's just not my crowd. But that is funny. a lot of room for that in that space. Because there's so many people who don't relate to the bravado or the sharp dressed side. Like they just want, in my opinion, and I think you hit on it, they really just want somebody who's gonna sit down, look eye to eye and say, hey look, I know how hard you worked for this money, and I'm not gonna lose it.

Tim Calise: Yeah. And

David Pere: That's

Tim Calise: that was

David Pere: it.

Tim Calise: so it's, you know, what, like Warren Buffett says, rule number one, don't lose money. Rule number two, don't forget rule number one,

David Pere: Exactly.

Tim Calise: which, which

David Pere: Yeah.

Tim Calise: is a great reminder for anyone out there. It was like, I have to be the king of the mountain. Like find your niche. For me, you know, authenticity and trust were the product. Nick, that was what people actually wanted while everybody else was competing over the show. And so anytime you can find a discrepancy like that in your marketplace, And if it doesn't exist, create a new category and then dominate that category. It'll take you much further than trying to play in the red ocean of pretending to, to be better than the next guy.

David Pere: Absolutely. Okay, so you go from, you raise all this money, and then how did you jump into, I mean, you mentioned that you like to tinker and you're very entrepreneurial. When did you jump into the actual service and tech industry and business

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: side?

Tim Calise: So you mentioned the, everybody likes to talk about their successes. Let me finish the story of how that 350 ended up. For those that were in the marketplace in 2008, especially the fall of 2008, it was a fucking bloodbath. in the spring of 2007 was when the things started to look like it was about to get rocky. And if you've done, you've kind of been in the market long enough, you know that there's like normal market dynamics, like it should look and perform a certain way. At that time, things went crazy. And it was because basically interest rates were low. This is when Ben Bernanke came out and said that the the beginning of the all day defaults was going to be contained, you know, this whole thing. And so we said, you know what, we can't compete in this market. And so in October of 2007, I went to all of those investors and said, we're going to go to cash. It's the right thing to do. You're paying us millions of dollars a year to invest on your behalf. I'm going to waive all those fees because it's not the right thing to do, but you have to leave your money with us and we will get back in the market. When it. when it kind of resets to a more normal environment. Or option number two, you can take your money. 98% of them said, I want my money back. You've lost your touch. So I wired out and basically returned $348 million in the end of 2007 on principal. And we were nine months early, but we were proven right. And so I think that that part lays into like the next phase of my career, which was I had... just finished like a four year, three and a half year, crisscross the country, seven days, 25 hours a day kind of thing, right? And so I said, what do I really wanna do? And my wife and I, at that time, were newly married and we were athletes in college. And I said, you

David Pere: I

Tim Calise: know

David Pere: want to

Tim Calise: what? I wanna do something that feels good day to day. So we got into the fitness industry. And so moved from Birmingham, Alabama, back to the Northeast where both of us were from, and we opened up gyms. And so from basically 2009 to last year, we owned a chain of five fitness facilities in Massachusetts where we live. And that introduced me to, that's how I met Alex and Llorva Mosley over at GymLaunch. But that was the transition. And amongst that, there was a technology component which I was deep into as well. So

David Pere: So

Tim Calise: I think

David Pere: I

Tim Calise: at

David Pere: think

Tim Calise: that

David Pere: it's.

Tim Calise: time it was just, what do I wanna do with my life after feeling like I did all this work without having the payoff, if you will.

David Pere: Yeah, but you know, without having the payoff, maybe. But I mean, if you hadn't listened to your gut and you'd lost, I mean, totally different. Right. And I

Tim Calise: So,

David Pere: wonder

Tim Calise: yep.

David Pere: almost like. Of the three hundred and forty nine that you wired back, not that anyone's going to actually reach out and say they were wrong, but I'm curious how many of those people, even if they didn't email you, are just like, man, should have stayed with that.

Tim Calise: They took my phone calls. Now, as I mentioned before, these are people whose retirement accounts we manage. So I pleaded with, there were a few key ones who I knew were gonna go to someone else who will tell them whatever they wanted to hear in order to get their money, get their business. And I just said, please, whatever you do, I might be wrong, but just don't go do something,

David Pere: Go

Tim Calise: don't

David Pere: bonds.

Tim Calise: go the other way, right, exactly.

David Pere: Yeah, like,

Tim Calise: Don't lever up, please.

David Pere: yeah.

Tim Calise: Go to cash, be conservative. And a number of those people did reach out afterwards and say, you know, it's, you told us the right, you told us what you believe to be true at the time and we should have been more open to it. But, you know, this is, I mean, they wrote movies around this, right? Like nobody else was thinking, not many people were thinking in the terms of how bad it could have gotten.

David Pere: Well,

Tim Calise: And so quickly.

David Pere: and it's the crux of all investing, right? When things are hot,

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: nobody wants to listen to, it's tulip mania.

Tim Calise: Yeah,

David Pere: Nobody wants

Tim Calise: that's

David Pere: to,

Tim Calise: exactly right.

David Pere: I've got that fricking thing framed in the other room.

Tim Calise: Thank you.

David Pere: When Dogecoin took off two years ago, and I actually made a pretty crazy return on that, I put 200 bucks into it. not because Dogecoin was mania, but when I saw that somebody had made a coin about that, I was like, that's hilarious. If that gains traction online, that's gonna blow up. And I put 200 bucks in it. And then like six, I forgot about it. Like six months later, it blew up online. And I was like, well, that's funny. I wonder

Tim Calise: That's

David Pere: if I

Tim Calise: nice.

David Pere: still own that. And then like two days later, Elon tweets about it. And I was like,

Tim Calise: Ugh.

David Pere: oh, that's gotta be good. So then I like went and looked at it. My 200 bucks turned into like 14 grand. And I was like,

Tim Calise: Yeah,

David Pere: and

Tim Calise: and

David Pere: we're

Tim Calise: we're

David Pere: out.

Tim Calise: out.

David Pere: And then it went up to

Tim Calise: You

David Pere: like

Tim Calise: were smart.

David Pere: a dollar, you know, and I

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: was like, I would have been like 60,000 bucks or something like that, but I don't care. Um, I took that as a down payment for a duplex that I then turned around a year later and sold with no capital gains or with, you know, a 10 31 into anyway, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, but I was just lucky gambling. You know, I was no intention of that actually. I didn't jump in because of hype, but so many people waited until it was too late. The hype is there and now they're whatever. And that's just how the market works. Once the hype is there and the, it's hard to convince people, Hey, uh, do you might want to pull back on that or, or even just sell a little bit as you're like, sell the principal out as you're going up so that you're not, but man, emotions

Tim Calise: Yeah. Well, every market works on expectations, right? If the theory is if everybody had perfect information, the market would be adequately priced at all times. And we know that it moves up or down on any given day, which means there's a, this battle of opinion. At some point, supply demand takes over. And in the short term, that's what moves. markets, right, is purely the amount of money moving one side to the other, buys versus sells effectively. Over the course of time, it matters, but in any given day, in any given week, those forces are significantly stronger, especially today with the advent of technology. Trading firms own the markets, which is why for anyone who's kind of in the markets generally for retail investors, take a long-term perspective because the short-term volatility is really tough to manage for most folks.

David Pere: Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. OK, so all right. Curious. So you've coached a bunch of, you know, seven, eight figure entrepreneurs, how to scale their business and how to make them sellable. And that's and that's kind of your jam right now.

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: What are some of the top strategies that or principles that you believe help make business, you know, like what are, I guess, some some top strategies that I usually frame thing as service members or veterans, but like. entrepreneurs can use to help grow their business into a successful or sellable business. I guess, I guess what kind of separates a sellable business from a not as you're looking at it, like, I

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: know

Tim Calise: Sure.

David Pere: that's not easy to distinguish when you're looking at it

Tim Calise: Yeah,

David Pere: from,

Tim Calise: so

David Pere: from the owner's side, I guess.

Tim Calise: for, of course, and well, first of all, perspective is an amazing, amazing thing, right? You and I could look at the, you know, you could look at my business and probably point some things out that I can't see. I mean, that's the nature of perspective, right? So as I work with folks, the number one thing that most people want, at least in the short term, is it comes out of cashflow. I'm not making enough money. I can't hire enough people. there, you know, I make, I generate revenue, but there's not enough money left over at the end of the month. You know, all of those types of things are symptoms that reflect a cashflow problem in the short term. And to have a sellable business is usually, especially for owner, owner operators is like, I'm working all the time and I'm doing everything. And I don't have enough money to buy back my time and hire others to make my life better. So the first thing that I look at is, is to say, well, how can we increase cashflow? And there's three things that we look at. It's price, it's product, and positioning. Because just about everything that a business, and my kind of sweet spot is service businesses under five million a year in revenue. The thing that most of them need is to differentiate themselves in the market, to be able to acquire customers at a profit, and increase the margins of their business. So if you're, you know, you just, the difference between what you're selling for and the cost to deliver it, or even the operating expenses, those are the three things that we look at kind of to drive increased cash flow. And then, so that's, that's the price positioning and product are the ways that we're able to influence those.

David Pere: Yeah, that makes sense. I think positioning is. That's probably the sneaky one that people don't, I think product and price people probably think about a lot more I would imagine than the positioning one, right? Because it's funny. So I use myself as an example as where you go through all this, but I always made fun of, well, I make fun of, but like the people who are on Instagram who come out as a expert right out

Tim Calise: Mm-hmm.

David Pere: the gate and they've got like 2000 followers and they're like, I'm an expert at this and I'll teach you all these things. And I have this incredible like branding guide and I look incredible online, but I have like three likes on my post and I've sold, like I've bought like one rental property and I'm going to teach you how to buy rental properties. And I'm like, you're doing this wrong. But then there's the other side, which is like me, which was like, I'm going to document my journey. I created this like $50 crappy logo off freelancer and we're off and we're not teaching all this stuff. We're not an expert. We're just positioned as like, hey, follow along. And the community blows up. Now I've got a business that's doing, you know, any, I mean, it fluctuates wildly because it's online business, but anywhere from 20 to $50,000 a month gross. And, you know, if I'm not, if we're not counting the houses that get sold, because that just throws the numbers off even more. And it's doing all right. And expenses are fairly low for the most part. And things are doing all right and whatever. And, but I still have crappy logo. And I realized like, last week or last month, I'm like, it's finally time to actually do a full branding guide again and rebrand and make sure that my mastermind and my

Tim Calise: Hahaha

David Pere: other thing and they all, you know, like my book is one color scheme and my logo is another and my mastermind is a third and like they're not all cohesive and like I'm not positioned in the way that I should be right now and that's, you know, like we are the largest military real estate investing community in the world and we probably should look like it

Tim Calise: Yes.

David Pere: and So that's it's good to hear you say that because I think I'm not going down the wrong tree with this

Tim Calise: No, and I know you had Ryan Pineda on at some point recently and talk about a guy who's exhibited the and shown what it looks like to build a scaled business. And I think the thing that he's done phenomenally well is each of the components of his business complement the other. And that integration and that alignment is phenomenal. And so, and just to get back to the positioning piece, you know, at Jim launch, we pioneered what is now fairly common, which is a six week. transformation challenge in the fitness industry. So prior to that, so the positioning for a gym used to be, and you've probably seen this everywhere, a free session or a free day or something, and it's generally free because it needs to be effectively a low ticket offer to get somebody in the door. Now we could say, well, okay, we're not gonna do a free thing, we'll do like a $9 day or something

David Pere: Yep.

Tim Calise: like that, a pass or something. We went completely the opposite. We went to a $600 six week transformation program. And at the time you could go, well, most people are challenged to sell zero, you know, a free offer, let alone a $600 offer. You guys are crazy. Like everybody missed the point. We positioned our gyms as not gyms. They were transformation studios. And it's different. A free gym is like. Well, I'm not going to go anyway. So what it doesn't matter if it's free, because most people just, you know, we'll never attend, right. But what most people want is the transformation. So we go, okay, we're not going to give you a free membership. We're going to give you movement, nutrition, and accountability. That's actually what I need. And so you flip the positioning through pricing and having a product stack that supports both of those. So I think that's, you know, for anyone who's listening, it's like, If you feel like you're, you have competition, you just haven't defined a new category yet in a way that allows you to differentiate yourself. So, you know, and David, even to your point, you know, being, you could just be a real estate company. There's thousands, tens of thousands of those, but you know, the process of niching down and representing, you know, the authenticity of who you are and what you, what you represent allows you to stand out in the marketplace.

David Pere: Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Calise: So lots of lessons to be learned there and you're

David Pere: Man,

Tim Calise: doing it right. You're

David Pere: I

Tim Calise: on

David Pere: can't

Tim Calise: the right path.

David Pere: I can't I can't hear you talk about gym memberships and not I think this actually I think I actually brought this up on the show like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, we were interviewing someone and some something similar came up using gyms as an analogy. And every time I hear it, I just recently with my wife watched this friends episode where they're trying to cancel their gym membership. I don't

Tim Calise: Yes.

David Pere: know if you've seen that I love

Tim Calise: Oh

David Pere: it.

Tim Calise: yes.

David Pere: Like Like they go in and they're like, we're gonna cancel our membership. And they've got this really hot chick.

Tim Calise: Hot

David Pere: They're like,

Tim Calise: lady,

David Pere: Oh,

Tim Calise: yeah.

David Pere: hang on. We'll bring out our, the lady you have

Tim Calise: Good,

David Pere: to talk to

Tim Calise: yeah.

David Pere: about canceling. And she just stands there.

Tim Calise: Exactly right. Yep.

David Pere: I need backup. I'm bringing a friend in and then he ends up signing up for the gym. And I'm like,

Tim Calise: That's right.

David Pere: That's

Tim Calise: Exactly.

David Pere: what goes through

Tim Calise: Oh,

David Pere: my head. I'm like, yeah, that's exactly

Tim Calise: I love it.

David Pere: what

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: gyms do. It's like the weirdest. Oh my gosh. But you're right. Yeah, that's a totally different model. But it's what you're selling. It's the positioning and it's exactly that you're selling the actual need and the actual want rather than the, you know, building.

Tim Calise: To know if you're on the right path, look at features versus benefits. If you are selling features, chances are you're not selling the right product. Benefits look like, you know, instead I could say, let me tell you about all the equipment we have in the facility. That's a features statement. Let me tell you about what class times there are. That's features. The benefits are, let me tell you about how your body's gonna transform. Your spouse is gonna look at you like they haven't looked at you in 20 years. Your friends are gonna be jealous because you're the hot one. Oh, that it's completely different. I could tell you, you know, stand on your head. If I could deliver that result. like we used to call it, you know, sell the vacation, not the plane flight. And what that means is like, if I told you you're going to Hawaii, you'd go, oh my God, this is amazing. Or pick your destination of choice. I wouldn't say, so David, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna pay hundreds of dollars for a ticket, and then you're gonna get up at the ass crack of dawn, and you're gonna go to an airport three hours before, and you're gonna take your shoes off, and someone's gonna scan you, and then it's gonna be super uncomfortable, and you gotta, you know, you'd never go.

David Pere: Yeah. No.

Tim Calise: So you have to think about how are you future pacing your customer towards the destination they want to end up in. And every business, every value based business is like that. You got to get them somewhere. They want to go somewhere and how do you take them there?

David Pere: Yeah, I love it. Yeah, that's a, I spent three years as a recruiter for the Marine Corps and that was needs based selling was exactly what we, you know, the, the army was always like, Oh yeah, we've got physical fitness and travel and, and we've got this and we've got this and we've got this and we'll give you this and we'll give you this and this. And it was like the same pitch and presentation no matter who you talk to. And we were, we basically had these things called benefit tags. I, I wonder if I've got my set. I bet I've got a set sitting around here somewhere, but it was these 11 or 12, like tags and they all had things like physical fitness, travel, uh, you know, personal development, um, whatever, whatever, you know, education, whatever, whatever they were on them. Uh, you just slid them across the table. You're like, Hey, uh, pick your fate. Like the three of these, I send out to you the most. And it was like, Oh, uh, I want travel and adventure and personal development and financial security. Cool. That's all we're going to talk about today. I don't care about the rest of the stuff. Like we can give you all the rest of the stuff, but that's the only thing we're going to talk about. And I'm not going to tell you like, oh, GI bill, but I'm going to tell you about the benefits and whatever. And like, yeah. Although,

Tim Calise: Exactly.

David Pere: you know, I was also trying to be like, we're going to get you a piece of paper for like four years of your life. So little, little, little

Tim Calise: A

David Pere: different

Tim Calise: little

David Pere: than

Tim Calise: different,

David Pere: six weeks

Tim Calise: yeah.

David Pere: of, here's, you know, 600 bucks, six weeks. It's like. You don't have to pay anything, but you're not going anywhere for the next four years.

Tim Calise: That's right.

David Pere: We'll pay you a little bit. But I also think it's a great, great gig. So I loved it. Easy to sell when you believe in it. Right.

Tim Calise: It's super important.

David Pere: Yeah,

Tim Calise: You'd be

David Pere: I

Tim Calise: shocked

David Pere: agree.

Tim Calise: at how many people are not aligned in that way.

David Pere: Yeah, I know you can feel it right when sales guys are desperate or needy. Um, okay. So, uh, when it comes to business, right? Um, When you're looking to sell, I mean, we've got the price product and

Tim Calise: Yeah. Positioning.

David Pere: positioning that we got, it's

Tim Calise: Yep.

David Pere: like, it's a P, I know what it

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: is, but

Tim Calise: All good.

David Pere: but when you're actually looking to sell, right? So if you're trying to maximize valuation, finding the right buyer, you know, smooth transition, there's a whole lot that goes into that. I mean, it's, you know, as far as maximizing valuation, like, oh, you reduce expenses, you do whatever. But what are some like, if I'm trying to, so you know, we'd like to play the net worth game and like, Ooh, at this multiple, I'm worth whatever, uh, game, a lot of people, but what, when it comes to actually selling a company and you're like, it's time to do this thing. What are you, what are some like common steps that you find people just aren't ready

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: to, you're like, you're looking at the business and you're like, dude, you're just, this is a mess. Like we've got to fix these things before we can even take this thing to market.

Tim Calise: Timing is one of the most important things. People wait too long because what happens

David Pere: Interesting.

Tim Calise: is a business is growing nicely and then it starts to plateau a little bit and then it's like, well, the future doesn't look as good as the past,

David Pere: Hmm

Tim Calise: so now is the time to sell. Well guess what? The buyer is going to come to the same conclusion you just did. and they're going to discount the value of your company because the future looks different than the past. So where you want to sell is when you think that things might slow down or whatever it might be, you'll hit a critical point, probably in the next 12 to 24 months. You wanna start the business sales process then so that you are selling while the growth rate is still the highest. So that's the first. And that is a very common misconception. You're selling out of like, I just want to be done with this. Or, you know, I've kind of, I've gotten, I've gotten bored rather than maximizing the timing of it. The things that are generally hardest are entrepreneurs or business owners that think that they are the center of the universe. If everything revolves around you and you don't want to remain in the position you're in to work for someone else, that's why this process takes 12 to 24 months, generally speaking, to complete, because we have to put the processes in place and we have to find the people. So not everything revolves around you.

David Pere: That makes

Tim Calise: And

David Pere: sense.

Tim Calise: buyers absolutely will kind of stress test your business in their own way to see how much risk they're taking on by buying the business. If you're not involved. And that's a key differentiation. A lot of business owners want to sell and then be done. If that's the sales process, like hand me a check and I'm out, that is what most people envision. That needs to be prepared for versus a sale, which is you buy the business and then you give me an employment contract for a year or two. Those are very different scenarios. Most

David Pere: Yeah.

Tim Calise: sub $5 million a year revenue businesses are the first category, primarily.

David Pere: It

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: makes sense.

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: Interesting.

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: Huh. Cool. So all right, so that kind of covered, I guess, my next question, which were some unexpected challenges. But you know, I'm curious, you kind of mentioned this and so I'm guessing this isn't as odd of a question as I thought it might've been, but I'm curious what you see most of these guys do after they sell. So assuming they're not on an employment contract, like my guess is that a lot of these guys sell a company. thinking they're gonna be like, oh, I made it, I'm gonna sit around. And then they get really bored and they go again, because they're like, they're, I had a friend, a good friend of mine, I once heard him say, anyone who can retire early, won't. And his whole point was essentially that, like those of us who are crazy enough to want to start businesses and do all these other things, aren't usually the type to just slow down and sit on the porch and sip lemonade and So I'm curious

Tim Calise: Very true.

David Pere: what you see these guys doing after they sell businesses.

Tim Calise: Yeah. So I believe so kind of you go from the entrepreneur kind of field into now, now you're more of an investor to some extent. And at that point you have a clean slate. So you can jump back over the fence, back into the entrepreneurship pool, or you can remain an investor. And so what you'll see a lot of people in, especially in the real estate industry, you'll see someone will sell a company, they've got some assets, they start buying real estate, they're looking for cash flow. And, you know, that gives them options. I think that's what most Most people want optionality. They just don't want to be forced. You know, if, if you could remain quote unquote, you know, before you retire, if you could do what you want, when you want and still work, most people would take that deal because you actually don't want to sit, you know, drinking my ties on the beach all day long, it actually gets kind of boring, right. And we're just wired to do. So what I see people do is for a period of time, I encourage people to let, kind of just settle, settle for. three months, six months, whatever's appropriate. After you have an exit, assuming you can do that. And then see how you feel. Because you kind of get into the idea, the novelty of the whole thing. Like I can sleep late and do all these things. That usually lasts like a week. And then after that, it's like, okay, I'm bored to tears. What do I want to do next? The question then is what do you do? I have found that the most successful people in the world will go back to what they know. there is a group of people who will make money in one industry and then they'll go and start restaurants or like, you know, I started a technology company, I made a bunch of money, now I'm going to go blow it in crypto and some other things that I just don't even know. That is a minority of people, but it is quite common, right? So I encourage folks to kind of take a second, see what you want to do. Most people are like, all right, I'm ready to go back in now, coach. Like, okay, go back doing something that you're familiar with, because You know, it's that adage, you know, the compounding is the eighth

David Pere: Thank you.

Tim Calise: wonder of the world. If you know how to do something, if you guys are into the business, it means you know how to do it reasonably successfully. And if you

David Pere: Yeah.

Tim Calise: want to learn something new, then go find a partner and go do something new. So I think that that itch that needs to be scratched is the, the creative element, like the, I need to, to manifest an idea into reality. You know, Wayne Heisinga is a great example of this. I think he bought and sold four waste management companies in his day. And when he was asked why it's the only, it's the thing I know. So I'm just going to go do it again. And waste management was, you know, a multi-billion dollar exit. So. You kind

David Pere: So

Tim Calise: of

David Pere: you

Tim Calise: go

David Pere: kind of go.

Tim Calise: play to my strengths, right? Instead of starting back at step one every time.

David Pere: I like that answer. And I mean, it makes sense because yeah, you see people dabbling in things that they just don't really, it's just not their jam. And you see them getting hurt. It was interesting. You kind of mentioned the crypto thing earlier. I almost kind of joked about it because we were talking about like young entrepreneurs or something. And I was thinking about it the other day. This

Tim Calise: Okay.

David Pere: is totally unrelated. But the other day I was like, man. I keep seeing, oh, it was when you mentioned entrepreneur being a buzzword. And, uh, the thing that flashed through my mind was how. Recently I've noticed kind of an uptick in like the, I have a fancy car

Tim Calise: Thank you.

David Pere: and I'm 20 something and I'm a, you know, entrepreneur and usually it's like a, a digital marketer of sorts and you like dig into it and it's like. crypto NFT something and it's like these there's like this small niche of people who like kind of made some money in the gambling on NFT crypto space but they have like nothing else to fall back on and now they're trying to it's an interesting I've seen it a little bit on maybe it's just the people I follow online but like man I kind of wonder what like I hope I hope they find something to parlay that into because from the outside looking in I'm like I mean I sure hope people don't buy that as a like coach because it's like Oh, you might have made some money as a, you know, digital marketer on the hype, but it was it was luck. And I hope you acknowledge the role that the timing played in that because.

Tim Calise: I mean, those dynamics, when I was younger, it was Saturday mornings before cartoons came on, it was like, options trading or something like that. And

David Pere: Yep.

Tim Calise: then it turned into, day trading will make you a millionaire. Just buy my course, get in my group and I'll give you all the things you need. There's always been, and especially now it's just accelerated, which is like the get rich quick, I want it now. There's got to be a shortcut. is just unfortunately so synonymous with kind of the culture and the mindset right now where it's, I'm going to butcher the idea, but it's like the somebody, if you want to get rich quick, or you can get rich quick, you can get rich quick, or you can get rich guaranteed or something like that. And you can't have both. So you kind of have to choose your path. And a lot of people have gone broke trying to get rich quick.

David Pere: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of a scammy scams out there. So you know what is what

Tim Calise: Yeah,

David Pere: it is.

Tim Calise: exactly.

David Pere: All right, cool. So let's see, I've got one or two questions I ask every guest. Let's see here. think that one's not really relevant this time around. So we're going to roll with this. Service members and vets, right? been around a lot of entrepreneurs. I don't know how many of them may or may not have a military background, but I'm curious if you've noticed anything, having any interactions with service members and vets within that community or space, any traits that make them stand out or that you think would make them unique uniquely positioned to be a strong entrepreneur or business owner.

Tim Calise: Absolutely. I have a couple of, got a good close friend of mine now is a former Navy Seal. I've got a couple of Army Rangers in my circle. So a few things. The first is, as I mentioned earlier, grit and determination is one of those things that's super important. I think discipline is obviously an incredible strategic advantage. If you can simply just do what you're already ahead of 90% of people or whatever the number is, right? And I personally like and I'm attracted to people who have an authenticity for what they do. And the service members that I know, William Branham, he runs a former Navy SEAL, I don't know if you know William, five SEAL secrets, just a phenomenal human being. and has taken his experience in service and been able to help so many business owners. The game of life is a mental one. Many people still think it's about who knows more or who can have the right path. The reality is it's all fought between your ears. And so someone like William has come into organizations and been able to just fix the mindset. And when you, I mean, that's why every leader has a successful person, generally as a coach, you need someone who can give you that perspective. And I think service members are uniquely, and entrepreneurs are uniquely positioned to take that combination of experience and those skill sets and traits that they have and bring them to bear in getting an idea off the ground and in an authentic fashion.

David Pere: I love it. Yeah, no, uh, wills actually been on the podcast before. So good dude.

Tim Calise: Oh,

David Pere: Um,

Tim Calise: there you go.

David Pere: yeah, it's, it's funny. You, you mentioned, uh, so what are the answers I give commonly if I get asked, you know, what, what makes service members, uh, you know, it's some version of that question. I always laugh and I'm like, well, you know, most businesses go through what I always jokingly call the BMW phase below minimum wage where you're broke and you're like,

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: shit, why am I doing

Tim Calise: Ha

David Pere: this?

Tim Calise: ha.

David Pere: Like, and, uh, You know, and you talked about it earlier, like most businesses fail in the first year and it's that grit and you know, being able to weather that storm. Well, my joke with that is like in the military, we're so used to, we don't, you know, we work our 40 hour week plus, you know, the other 40 hours that we don't get paid for because we just had to show up at three in the morning to clean weapons or work on

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: Saturday or we're sitting around sitting on our hands going, why the hell am I still at work? You know, or whatever. And I was like, so now when you open a business, it's like, well, I'm still working all this extra time for no money,

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: but at least I'm doing it for me. So this

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: is fun. Now. It's like,

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: we're the military prepared me for this.

Tim Calise: Absolutely. Well,

David Pere: But

Tim Calise: and you get to lead the organization, right? To some extent, like that is, I think leaders eat first in a lot of ways. And by taking care of yourself, you become a better leader and you already have a lot of those traits innate in you, where I think a lot of small business, I mean, I will put myself in this, I had to learn that on the job. And it was probably more painful for my team at that time than I, in hindsight, probably made it harder on them than I should have. or could have had I had a greater sense of those qualities earlier in my career.

David Pere: Yeah, I agree. Well, is there I know we both got to run here in a minute. Is there anything

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: that we missed that you think would be worth covering before

Tim Calise: Uh, yeah,

David Pere: we roll?

Tim Calise: no, the only thing I'll say is, uh, I am inundated day in and day out with, you know, claims, right? I think you even spoke to the kind of the internet marketing world. Uh, so for anyone out there who is thinking about taking action, uh, I would encourage you to pay attention to the show, not to tell

David Pere: Mmm.

Tim Calise: people can say whatever they want to say. And, uh, I believe in, and this is something I've done in my business is I do, I, I give away all the information for free. I help with implementation, but I'll give away my knowledge. So, you know, if that's something that's of interest, if anything that I've said has been resonated with you, would love to go to timkaleese.com, T-I-M-C-A-L-I-S-E.com slash VIP, and I'll send you some of the behind the scenes walkthroughs on how to scale a business, how to start a business. We do weekly calls and would love to have, be able to get that out to your audience. So. If that's of interest, just like I said, go there or I'm on Instagram at tim.khalis. And if you DM me MMP for military millionaire podcast, I will offer you guys a special gift. So shoot that over if you're listening and I'll send your audience a little something.

David Pere: Right on. Well, that wraps up my next question of where can people get ahold of you. And I just

Tim Calise: Yeah.

David Pere: opened your web browser so that I can go check out all your free content as well. And

Tim Calise: Perfect.

David Pere: Tim, this has been a pleasure. I've gotten quite a bit of information out of this. I'm glad to get some validation that I'm on the right path with a little bit of rebrand. And I'm going to go and dig into that and get myself squared away for some positioning.

Tim Calise: That sounds awesome. Well, I really appreciate you having me. And I know entrepreneurship can be isolating or and, you know, it's heavy as the head, but, you know, I think finding a mentor like, and a leader like yourself, we're all, we're all benefiting from. So we appreciate it very much.

David Pere: Well, thank you very much, brother. Have a great day, and I'll let you know when the show goes live.

Tim Calise: Sounds good. Thank you so much.